THE HORROR COMMUNITY - WHAT'S WRONG?
28/11/2014
Some of you may know I've been off work for a couple of weeks with a busted up leg. I've spent more days than I care to remember lying on the floor of our living room desperately trying to get comfy. Doped up on more painkillers than I can even name I've been unable to focus on reading or writing, but what I have been doing is spending a lot of time tinkering about on the site, watching the awesome The League on Netflix, and farting about on Facebook. Part of what I've been doing with with the tinkering of the site has been reaching out to other websites, magazines, people on Facebook and other organisations that I thought shared a love of horror, and what I've found has been somewhat saddening and frankly really off putting. I remember a time not so long ago when everyone in the horror community ( I'm obviously not talking about the big leaguers here) was willing to help each other out. You would see posts about books that folk loved, posts that people actually got involved in a had great discussions. They would share posts, link to websites and holy mother of crap leave comments on websites. There seemed to be a shared sense of belonging, people actually took pleasure is seeing another author succeed. It was a good time. However in the past year or so there has been a slow and insidious decline in this sense of community, and it bothers me. Before I go any further this isn't about me and the site. I get over 200,000 visits a month from a very large unique visitor base, and it's growing every month. My site allows be to see the number of pages visited, how long people spend on the site etc, and it shows that people are reading it. So this post is not about me. The site is growing really well yes any help in sharing is greatly appreciated but this post is more about the general malaise in the community. This is about the people that the site was set up to help those working in the trenches of horror fiction, horror films and horror in general. Please don't take this as bragging or me stroking my ego, I know that when compared to places like Fangoria, Dread Central etc I'm a small fish. For a start Facebook has become a sea of "look at me posts", the constant feed of "look at my new book" has resulted in zero interaction between authors no one comments anymore. Well when I say no one, what I really mean is no one except the same old faces. I use that term with the utmost sense of endearment. These few seem like the last bastion of the old ways, desperately trying to cling on to the old way of life. And I salute you guys, you ROCK! I was talking to a few writers yesterday, and we all said the same thing 1000's of followers, fans or friends and it's the same ten or so people liking sharing and commenting. What's everyone else doing? I know Facebook limits the reach of your posts, but not to the extent that less than 1% see the posts. Do the rest of you not care? Are you really too busy to spare a second to hit the share button? Then there are other websites. I must have put out fifty or so requests for a link swap, most of them to sites that get smaller viewing figures than mine. My reason for this if I can use my sites google standing to help boost that of others then great. More sites getting promoted means more exposure for you guys. And if these sites link back to me then again you guys get more exposure. Do you know how many replies I got 4. Pretty poor, I think it's all part of the same disease that is plaguing the community. Things have changed over the past few years, for a start there are hell of lot of you out there writing, and making films. And you are all chasing the magical golden pie, you want your slice, some of want the slice with that extra bit of frosting on top. Fair play to you all, I'm sure being a full time successful writer is your dream job. And therein lies the problem it's a dream job, one that doesn't really exist anymore. You have more chance of winning the lottery than become rich and successful from writing. There is no pie anymore, there is no slice, christ there are just crumbs now, so stop fighting over the crumbs like a bunch of feral pigeons. The pie is never coming back, but if we work together there just might be a chance of a slice of pie or maybe even a cup cake. (sorry for all the cake references I really just want some cake right now). There is this misconception that if a reader buys a book from writer X then they won't buy a book from writer Y. Which is utter nonsense, if that reader likes writer X he's going to to read all of their stuff, then look for something else. If they see X on Facebook, Twitter or even X's own website saying they love what Y has just written, then the chances are that reader will go and buy a book from Y. Readers have very little brand loyalty these days, they shop around, they look for recommendations, and most of them know Amazon is worthless when it comes to this. They know any system that allows a reader to leave a one star review for a book just because it took more than a day to arrive in the post is just fucked. It is almost as though some of you think that your are all competing against each other you're not. Choosing a book isn't like deciding between Heinz Baked Beans and Branston Baked Beans, a consumer will buy more than one "brand of book" (by the way Branston is the best). They go into bookshops to buy one book, and come out with a bagfull of them. And if you embrace the love and become a community member then you might just find yourself in that bag of books. Word of mouth is the key, you'll sell more books from word of mouth than any amount of spam on social media. I'm not going to go into my thoughts on kindle sales, that's a whole new post, but don't do it, giveaways don't equate to readership. So come guys lets gets this sense of community back, lets start talking sharing and bigging up those writers that we like. It's the same for websites, we are just a different breed of writer, there is no exclusive readership, I read and share loads of other sites, I don't care if they are more successful than mine, get more comments than me or more shares on Facebook, all I care about is the genre. So any website owner or blogger out there take your head out your arse and start promoting other sites, it will help you in the long run. There seems to be some hostility among certain website camps out there, and I'll be honest here there was a time where I would go charging in like a rabid pitbull, but those days have gone. I now realise that no one wins in this situation there is never a right or wrong on the internet, there is only ever two lots of people shouting over each other. Just this morning I saw some passive aggressive bullshit that "wouldn't name names" about other websites, on a thread that had nothing to do with it. STOP IT! STOP IT NOW. If us website owners just stopped acting like babies and got rid of our egos and focused on promoting this genre we all profess to love we might just get genre back on its feet. GINGER NUTS OF HORROR - THE HEART AND SOUL OF HORROR WEBSITES
Paul M. Feeney
28/11/2014 01:44:32
*stands up and applauds*
F. G. Cottam
28/11/2014 01:51:14
You write under the assumption that everyone is as internet-savvy as you are, which simply isn't the case. I've written nine novels that could be put into the horror category and the first was published 7 years ago and I've never experienced any sense of community. I've never been asked for a contribution to a horror compilation and you (for example) have never reviewed any of my books.
Peggy Wheeler
2/12/2014 09:10:57
Yet...here you are reading and commenting on line. If you can learn to do this, you can also acquire a higher level of technical proficiency so that you can be a part of the community instead of feeling depressed and lonely. You don't need "aptitude" to become proficient at technology. You need a desire and willingness to learn and participate. Also, out of curiosity: why should anyone ask you to contribute to a horror compilation, or why should anyone review your books, especially since you admit that you don't even care to learn how to participate online so people even know who you are? You aren't any less capable of acquiring these skills than any of us are. The difference is not that we have more aptitude than you, but that we cared enough to take the time to learn. If you want help, many of us would be willing to show you a few things so you can get around, or help you get on tutorial sites. That's how we all learned. You seem like an articulate and bright person. You certainly don't lack the intelligence or the capacity to learn. If you know that the cyber-world is where writers live, you can join us if you want to. If you don't want to, that's fine. No one will judge you for that. But, if you make that choice, why complain about being left out? 28/11/2014 02:03:34
F.G. send me an email you can get from the button at the top of the page and let me see what I can do for 28/11/2014 02:14:26
Very poignant post Jim. I hope you're healing up mate :) . Writing and getting published really is a double edged sword. With the small press and self-publishing there really is so much competition out there. You are required to promote yourself because small press publishers can only do so much, but then people get sick of seeing it. Yet by contrast I've seen people wondering why they're not promoting themselves. I do feel there is a community out there of authors willing to help each other out by creating promotion round robins and sharing each other's work, but you're right, we need more of it. 28/11/2014 02:18:59
That's what my comment about the few that still do share and interact. It's just that the amount that do is dwindling. I still remember the days when I would stay up way past my bedtime taking part in great discussions between loads of authors and fans. This hasn't happened in a long time. Or maybe I'm just not invited to the party any more 28/11/2014 02:36:33
I've noticed a shift in the amount of horror writers who now engage, and you're right, it does seem like the same faces who tend to promote not only their own work but those of their contemporaries. I still find the horror community quite inclusive, but agree it doesn't have quite the feel it did a few years back. It's a shame, really, we should be each others' loudest and most ardent supporters. There are days, though, when my newsfeed is filled with 'look at me, look at my book!' posts that I want to pull my hair out -- not because I don't want to hear about books, but because some of the authors have no real interest in engaging with a potential reader. Conversation. There needs to be more of it. 29/11/2014 05:43:46
I run into the problem of finding the right forum to engage readers. I've made several attempts to join groups on Goodreads where I could do this. Maybe it's just bad luck on my part, but every group I join either spends way too much time off topic or doesn't post frequently. And I've tried to get my readers to engage me on my author's Facebook page by asking questions, but do not get much of a response. It's frustrating. 28/11/2014 02:55:33
One of the things I often do is comment on threads and posts in writer/reader groups on facebook. I gave had several people ask about my work unsolicited because of this and several more say they will "check out my stuff". Whether they actually do or not is another thing entirely, but I hope that in doing this I am showing that I am willing to interact with my audience. I don't do this for promotional purposes only and only comment on posts that catch my interest and sometimes it's just me trying to be funny, but I have drawn attention to myself in this way. 28/11/2014 03:15:44
Great post, great comments already. I hope the bone knits and the pain fades soon, but it seems like the drugs haven't dulled your wits any. 28/11/2014 03:56:18
My thoughts exactly. The genre and our friends come first. 28/11/2014 04:01:25
Spot on, surely if we all worked together, we'd help foster a community rather than being self-serving asshats. I've just got my first book out and it seems like we're stood at the bottom of a huge mountain and the only dude with climbing experience and rope is sat at the top and doesn't want to play anymore. 28/11/2014 04:15:29
I'm new to your blog, but I agree with the sentiments. The pie is only as small as we imagine it. I'm off to explore your website. Thank you.
Tom Cranham
28/11/2014 04:29:24
Great article, enjoyed that, and can't argue with any of it!
Paula Limbaugh
28/11/2014 05:03:51
Well said and so true. Hopefully everyone that reads this will share this, perhaps it will open a few eyes! Wishing you a speedy recovery, Jim. You're bang on about so many things in this post. Many folks forget to thank reviewers like you who do so much for the community and for authors. When my book review blog started up, you were one of the first ones to support it and that means a great deal to me. Rock on, brother.
Kat Yares
28/11/2014 07:15:46
I think a huge part of the problem is that many authors today expect you to help pimp their books (commenting, liking and sharing), but when you, yourself, have a new release - they don't reciprocate. It's disheartening. 28/11/2014 08:16:41
Well said, sir. I feel holier-than-most since I posted a sale book by a horror writer friend on my Facebook page just a while ago, *before* I read this blog. What you say is true. We should share good work, whether we've written it or not. 28/11/2014 08:47:35
I noticed this starting in 2013. There are several authors who have switched to posting about one of their books almost daily, and I've unfollowed (but not unfriended) them. I don't mind the occasional post, but the drumbeat becomes tiring after a while. 28/11/2014 09:49:30
You're exactly right. I've witnessed a deep decline in 'visitor' interaction on all of the sites I go to over the past year. Is it that there are just too many sites to see, so people kind of do quick hit and runs? I'm not sure. I do agree that those of us creating and promoting horror need to step up our game collectively. 28/11/2014 10:58:39
I have to agree - the Branston Baked Beans are the best - and now I'm starting a MAJOR JONES for Branston Pickle! We just need to work together - again. Really. 28/11/2014 11:43:51
Great article Jim - hope your leg heals well. Put me down for a link exchange - happy to promote other horror authors on my website too. If anyone is interested just visit and contact me via email address at bottom of site. Keep up the good work - the site is looking great - heaps of awesome content via Ginger Nuts of Horror as per.
Look at all your comments! ;) I do think comments, speaking of which, are dying out because people often go back and comment on Facebook. It's why some blogs just shut off comments.
Jan Edwards
28/11/2014 13:51:03
very true
Richard Lee Byers
28/11/2014 13:58:27
Good essay! One thing it doesn't really address, though, is the point that (I believe) FG was getting at. A writing "community" can seem like an exclusive clique to someone who hasn't succeeded in gaining admission to the inner circle. That writer can easily feel that "Nobody ever recommends my books; nobody ever invites me to contribute to any anthologies; why should I give anyone else a boost when I never get one?" When you see writers hellbent on self-promotion to the exclusion of all else, that may sometimes be the reason. 4/12/2014 14:11:56
Richard, I think sadly that clique or inner circle does exist and it can seem both daunting and exclusionary to those of us that feel we don't qualify. Luckily, on FB, there's a lot of decent people who will spend the time to chat, share a joke with and just generally engage if you reach out to them. Really, that's all it take for me. It's the ones who give you the cold shoulder and ignore you that bug me. You wouldn't do that to someone in real life and if they did, I'd certainly have something to say... 28/11/2014 15:12:28
Well said, Jim. Most of us could write one novel a year - two, at a push. People who read for pleasure will read far more books a year than that. There's room for us all, and the writing life can be so up and down that those little bits of support and help from other writers can be a positive lifeline. 28/11/2014 18:19:05
See, I fel quite the opposite, about the community part at ant rate. Yes there is a general divide between genres, but I belong to a large community of diverse writers that want to see each other succeed. I have also carved a smaller community of like minded writers that offer their services as proof and beta readers as well as sounding boards. 28/11/2014 20:27:16
I have never had pie with icing and I somehow feel cheated by that fact. Other than that allow me to say amen! I came looking for camaraderie not inflated egos and vain competition. Thanks.
Rod Labbe
28/11/2014 21:32:27
I'm very disappointed by the horror community. As a new novelist--my first book was published last May by Samhain Horror--but not a new horror writer (I'm an Active Member of the HWA due to my connection with Fangoria magazine), I'm surprised at how apathetic the horror writing community apparently is. After years of working on my novel, I was absolutely thrilled when Don D'Auria accepted it for publication. Yes, I actually had grand thoughts of this thing galloping out of the gate, with my fellow horror writers patting me on the back and doing what they could to get the word out. The day came, and instead of fireworks, I encountered a wet firecracker. In the six months since, the book has sold well, I've received some glowing reviews (including on Amazon, which surprised me), but I've heard very, very little from my fellow horror writers. Could be because I'm essentially an unknown...but I assumed, apparently wrongly, that entering into a family of horror writers under one umbrella would at least give me an "in" and make me one of the gang. It hasn't. I've been interviewed only once, wrote a blog only once (for fellow Samhain author, Cat Cavendish), and that's it. As far as I know, none of my fellow horror writers have read my book. In the meanwhile, I've been working on my second book for Samhain, so next year at this time, I'll have two books under my belt that will hopefully give me some cred. I hope. After the second book is submitted--next week--I'll be concentrating on pushing the first, as well as going back to freelance magazine writing (something I haven't been doing because of my book-writing responsibilities). How to improve the situation? Well, it would be nice if you reviewed my book! It's quite unique in today's horror market--no gore to speak of and no sex! Just a good, old-fashioned ghost story! 28/11/2014 22:55:49
Rod, I think can be a bit difficult when there are so many horror books out on the market, and continuing to be published every day (my 'to-read' pile grows ever mountainous). I buy the novels, collections, and anthologies of those in the horror community (currently reading a short story collection by an Aussie horror writer), and review all I read. This, however, needs to be fit in with my work as an editor, my own writing, and that magical, wonderful and demanding place known as real life.
kyle Beardsley
29/11/2014 01:27:47
I think sales dropping to Zero seems extreme but I can dawn some light on the free book scenario. 29/11/2014 04:00:42
i think there is a lot of truth in what you say, Jim, and a lot of truth in the replies you have received to this post. I think there are more sites out there than ever, so we're spreading ourselves more thinly. I also think that horror writers are less inclined to engage in lots of chit-chat. Our romance writer colleagues dash about having online events, giving away amazon vouchers and 'swag', while we tend to lurk more in the shadows like some of our characters. I'm the Cat Cavendish Rood mentions in his comments and I try and promote my fellow writers wherever possible. I am delighted to welcome guests onto my blog and love to reciprocate when invited. I also love to read and review books by my fellow horror authors (and others on occasions). Promotion spreads the word and also helps us develop a support network which we all need from time to time. None of us can be everywhere all the time or we would never get any writing done (or anything else for that matter) but I appreciate my interactions with my fellow horror writers - and thank you, Jim, for all your support on this site in your many and varied way's It's a great site and I share quite a number of your posts via Twitter and my daily online 'newspaper'. Can't quite keep up with them all though! Sorry! I try my best. I shall be knocking on your door again soon, if that's ok? 29/11/2014 05:16:10
I am a great believer in the principle 'A rising tide floats all boats'. As you correctly point out reading is not an either/or game, no one loses by pulling in new readers and yes, it is always the same faithful few who support Fox Spirit as they do Ginger Nuts. Sadly I have no answers to this. I have lately found the genre community can be very divisive and at times aggressive, when what most of us want to be is inclusive and welcoming. Hope you are improving quickly health wise. 29/11/2014 05:29:47
Hi Jim. I totally agree with what you're saying, especially the part about the dream no longer existing. But if you're dream is simply to write and get your work out there, there's still a chance. Hope you feel better soon x
Steve Green
29/11/2014 07:14:34
I'm not convinced there was ever much of a 'pie' in the first place, Jim. Even back in the 1970s, most of the authors I knew had to hold down full-time jobs running parallel to their writing careers. Those who managed to eke out a living from their books usually did so with help from pseudonymous hackwork (novelisations, pulp sleaze, porn). 29/11/2014 09:07:36
Some very important, cogent and (sadly) true statements you've come up with here, Jim. I agree with you that there is a far too much one-way conversation (and we are equally as guilty.) Effective social media is not about 'me me me' or 'buy buy buy.' However, I do think that with all the demands put on an individual or organization they often resort to such. Community, word-of-mouth, sharing VALUABLE content (like this post), opinions, and a whole lot more, is where we all should all be spending more of our time to not only advance the horror community but also generate awareness for all the work that is so important to each and every one of us. Thank you for throwing a brick into the pond. I'm looking forward to the ripples becoming waves. 29/11/2014 09:51:28
Hi Jim. As editor of The Horror Zine, of course I disagree. I work for the love of the genre. I put in a lot of hours for free to promote writers, poets, and artists. Take a look at my "List of Magazines and Zines" page, and you will see so very many editors of horror magazines who feel the same way I do. Would like to post your article on Facebook to see what others say. 29/11/2014 17:56:35
Great post Jim. I'd say you should breath your leg more often but that'd be mean. For my part I've found the horror community to be incredibly supportive if you embrace it. And if you expectations are realistic. I mean if you've written stuff that's so cool you think Stephen King or Clive Barker is going to drop everything to read and praise...well that's just not gonna happen. You've got to get out there and mingle and askbfelloiw authors for some help. I've found most if them (including myself) to be quite friendly and willing to help. But sometimes they can't or won't. Suck it up and move on.
I ambled over here from Facebook thanks to a post from Glenn Rolfe, and I cannot agree more with the sentiments posted here. While my site is far from huge, and it was up until recently all about me me me, that'll change in 2015. If you're a horror/dark fantasy author looking to be interviewed or interested in having a review posted of your work, drop me a line @samrwitt on Twitter and we can talk. 30/11/2014 10:54:17
Really good post. And look at all these comments. Horror - it's alive!
Brian Keene
2/12/2014 05:03:25
Excellent essay, Jim, and something several of us veterans have been discussing with various protégés in private recently. You nailed the question. However, the answer is long. I promise I'll post my thoughts once I'm back from break in January. 2/12/2014 12:12:07
Thanks Brain, if you have the solution then I'd like to be part of it
Aurelio Rico Lopez III
2/12/2014 06:09:49
Great article. I always share pictures and links of books and authors I enjoy reading. 2/12/2014 06:19:26
A long time concern of mine, marvelously stated. Thank you. (Happy Holidays and healing to you!) 2/12/2014 08:22:24
Great, honest post. I am on a mission to payback the many who have given me support in kind and in equal measure, and when I can't pay back, I pay forward. 3/12/2014 01:24:10
This has to be one of the best (and funniest) deconstructions of the issues facing community in fiction today. I think it definitely applies beyond horror as well to fantasy and other genres. 13/1/2015 20:26:19
So true. The biggest thing I learned getting published was that it would not be like I dreamed as a child; it would not be my new career. It is now my public hobby. Good thing I'm not in it for the money! Comments are closed.
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