THE APOCRYPHAL WORD: AN INTERVIEW WITH FILMMAKER JOSH ARMSTRONG

Mental Health has always been a subject that is close to my heart, as a suffer of extreme depression and anxiety, as well as number of other disorders, I have always wanted to use the Ginger Nuts of Horror Website as a force of good in promoting awareness of these issue.  When director Josh Armstrong contacted the site asking for help to promote his new film Apocryphal, a film which is  a tribute to those we have lost to drug addiction, and its purpose is to shed light on the importance of mental health, I jumped at the chance.  

Today we welcome Josh to the site with a powerful and in-depth interview about his films, mental health representation, and why Peppa Pig appears in his IMDB credits.  

​Hello Josh, how are things with you? 

I’m good thanks, Jim. How are you?

APOCRYPHAL is your latest film that you are funding via Kickstarter, but before we chat about that I’d like to ask you about some of  your previous films, your influences and some of the factors about taking short films.  

Sure! Go ahead!

First off, ho​w did you get into filmmaking, and what was the draw of creating films over saying being a writer?

I’ve always been into film from a young age, but I remember distinctly seeing ‘THE MATRIX’ at 10 years old and being blown away. That was the moment I knew I wanted a career in film.

The best part about creating films is you can awe audiences in so many ways. Whether it be the movement of music, the scattering of light, or the delivery of dialogue. I suppose I love film more in that sense because there’s just so much variation to how you can astound someone.

We all have influences on our work, who are the three main influences on you as a filmmaker?

I was certainly a fan of the Wachowskis’ early work, but my three main influencers now are David Fincher’s boldness, the boundless imagination of Hayao Miyazaki, and the fantastical conjurings from Guillermo del Toro.

Would you say there is a common theme running through your films?

Mental illness. It’s the next big pandemic in my opinion. I think it’s so important to tackle this theme in forward-thinking ways, and we really can’t emphasise it enough. I feel like we’re in the next step of human evolution - whereby we learn to work together or tear ourselves apart. And progress takes the work of the many.

One of the biggest hurdles facing independent filmmakers is the ability to make their films look good.  In this era of films with shooting budgets greater than some countries GDP, we as viewers have become used to films that “look good”.  I know that as a reviewer, I don’t like watching “cheap looking” films.  I’ve watched 'SHIFT' and 'SUPER MIX', and they both look visually expensive.  How did you achieve this on such a tight budget?  

Thank you for watching 'SHIFT' and 'SUPER MIX'! At 10 minutes long, 'SHIFT' was filmed with £2500, and 'SUPER MIX', at 150 minutes was with £3500. Sometimes I don’t even know how I managed!

I remember starting out by making music videos, and somebody with a budget of £100 asked me “Can you CGI a crowd of thousands in?”. I’ve actually lost a lot of jobs because of this sort of expectation.

As you said, there’s this ridiculous perception of filmmaking now, so it’s vital to come up with new ways to make budgets work around you.

The biggest expenses people forget in film are generally accommodation, food, and travel. So we slept in one star hotels, ate cardboard tasting food, and walked miles on end with backpacks of equipment. All of the cast and crew worked so hard - and for free - to make 'SUPER MIX' happen and I couldn’t be happier to be with such a talented team.

But at some point you’ve got to draw the line and realize there are cinematic moments we just can’t recreate without money. Because of the pandemic traditional funding for film is harder than ever to obtain now too, so what little we could raise four years ago was huge as to what’s offered now.

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Here’s a behind the scenes still from 'SHIFT':

And a couple of stills from 'SUPER MIX':

If you​ had any advice for any potential filmmakers reading this, what advice would you give with regards to getting the look and feel right on their films.  

Experiment and endure. And don’t take shortcuts. You won’t learn anything from applying a stock footage LUT or sticking on an aspect ratio. The more you learn from every field, the more everything will start to blend in too.

One thing I noticed in 'SUPER MIX' was the lack of blood during some of the fight scenes, was this due to budgetary restraints, or some other reason?

It was only at the point I was experimenting with a fire extinguisher and tomato sauce that we decided to not show as much blood. Guerilla filmmaking at its finest there!

We simply didn’t have the budget for a technician and there’s only so much you and your crew can juggle on set. I think we managed to pull it off regardless, and I now have gallons of fake blood I’ve made since just waiting to be unleashed!

I’ve got to say in both 'SHIFT' and 'SUPER MIX', the soundtrack is fantastic, how do independent filmmakers such as yourself achieve such a great soundtrack?

Our composer Reg Length will love hearing that! I grilled a lot of composers actually, but when I first met him I told him I missed the work of composers like Bernard Herrmann and Ennio Morricone and we immediately clicked. 

Reg has worked with some big names including the BBC, and uses a mixture of acoustic, electronic, orchestration and field recording for his music. To me, there’s something more terrifying about the boom of an explosion, the snap of a bone, or the howling of a wind, than a simple melodic piece. I look towards incorporating “the music of life” and Reg understands that.

Both films can for the sake of argument, be described as “silent movies”  it’s a bold artistic move, what made you decide to do this, and how well do you think you pulled it off?

An image can say a thousand words. I’ve sat through so many films waiting for a 10 minute dialogue to end, wanting to shoot my brains out. 

People communicate so much more through body language, but of course it’s always a challenge for filmmakers to blend realism and surrealism.

I wanted to focus more on the human condition, and portray emotions in a more humanistic way. You can probably blame 'HIS HOUSE' writer Toby Venables for that, as I’ve been personally shepherded by him for years!


Looking at the credits for 'SUPER MIX', you have a hand in nearly every aspect of the production, how did you balance your time between everything, and how did you manage any compromises between the individual elements of the production?  

I mentioned earlier how it’s important to learn different areas of filmmaking, and the best way to do that is by doing. From 'SUPER MIX' I really had the chance to learn so many different techniques and evolve my style. I’ve been filmmaking for over a decade now, but it was only when I threw myself into everything did I learn the most. But most importantly, having that experience helps me to direct others in achieving a vision and in bringing teams together.

Since 'SUPER MIX' I’ve now got crew members for every area. (What a relief!) And since ‘'SHIFT'’ our crew has increased tenfold and we’re just too excited to come together and make something soon. Fortunately for APOCRYPHAL I’ll be concentrating on the directing - and the quality will be hugely improved from it.

Is there one aspect of the production that you would gladly and over to someone else?

Sound recording is my least preferred area because if the sound’s bad nobody wants to endure your content! I have a guy who’s incredible now though - Conor Ramskill. Honestly, the man is a magician.

And I have to ask, what would be on your 'SUPER MIX'?

At the moment it’s a combination of dark synthwave, Bowie, and afrofuturism. I rather obsessively listen to genres that help me delve into a certain mindset for future projects. 

APOCRYPHAL is your latest project and like your other films, the depiction of mental health is a common theme that is strong in the film,  why is this?

APOCRYPHAL asks the question “If a drug addict encountered an entity from the dark chasms of space, how would society treat them?” Mental illness very often goes hand in hand with addiction.

I mentioned earlier how I view mental illness as the next big pandemic, in fact I believe it’s already happening. We’ve all had our demons, or encountered those with darker ones. I’ve always been somebody who loves to help, and if I can do that through my art and uplift just one person from what feels like a bottomless pit, I’ll consider my work a job well done.


APOCRYPHAL came about in response to the death of a close friend of yours. Does the close personal relationship with the inspiration for the film make it easier or harder for you to create a movie around it?  Does it give you an added drive to get it made, or does the nature of it, hold you back at times?
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That’s a really good question. My friend who passed away was incredibly talented as a musician, and his death left this huge void in the Cambridge community where we met. He suffered from his own dark demons, yet still produced some of the best lyrics I’ve ever heard. If anything I have more of a drive to create something beautiful. Since he left us so young I feel it’s only right to carry on his legacy of an entertainer by forging new ideas and moving forward to make the world a better place. He’d appreciate that.

APOCRYPHAL is first and foremost a horror film, why did you choose this genre as the framework to tell your story?

There’s a real drive to capture audiences in new ways through horror right now. Since this is a tribute to those we have lost to drug addiction and mental health, we want to explore the painful battles that lure people to that dark side of hard drugs. We could solely focus on making this a drama, but often enough it’s rather nice escaping the world and viewing issues in unique ways.

And ultimately there’s nothing more terrifying than losing our minds.


Horror has historically been guilty of portraying mental health in a negative way, what are some of the worst examples of this? 


I think that negative influence has come from an era where anything new was considered dangerous. The nationalist ideals at the time of, say, 1931’s ‘Dracula’ or 1920’s ‘The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari’ were far different from nowadays, although some may argue that. War has always influenced cinema, and throughout history the idea of “the unordinary” has carved storylines of screenwriting. There’s a reason why Russians are often depicted as the bad guys in Hollywood.

Horror just hasn’t evolved fast enough with the times, and unfortunately cinema does like to represent mental illness as being synonymous with homicidal urges. ‘American Horror Story’ is a strong example of this, and admittedly I just haven’t watched all the seasons because of pure rage at certain depictions in favour of essentially a ‘screamfest’.

I mean, I understand that there’s something eerily therapeutic about watching a disturbed inbred swinging a chainsaw, or Hannibal eating a brain, but to be honest I think horror fans deserve better, and those with suffering deserve better too. 

And what horror films would you say handle mental health themes in a positive way?

It’s rather sad I find that hard to answer. Perhaps Nyoni’s “I Am Not a Witch” but that’s more heartbreaking than anything.

The film also tackles the problems of drug addiction, did the death of your friend change your views  on drug addiction, and how we as a nation are handling the problem? ( I’ve watched them put two of my friends being put in the ground thanks to drug addiction)


I’m sorry to hear about your friends. It’s a hard event to witness. In my opinion we have a government who think far too old-fashioned, in the same way as so many horror films treat mental illness - everything not ‘normal’ is dangerous. 

The ‘War on Drugs’ has created cartels, street gangs, and encouraged adding lethal substances to narcotics. We’re already seeing studies showing the potential benefits of MDMA and psilocybin for depression, and the US shows how marijuana legalization can improve not only mental health but the economy. 

Personally, I’m not a drug user but for the same reason I don’t take most medication. In the right environment and with appropriate administering these drugs can help society, and if the treatment had been there for my friend he likely wouldn’t have had to seek it out himself and ultimately pass away from heroin. But if they’re made illegal the drugs hitting the streets become more dangerous.

What’s shameful about our nation is that I struggle to find any reliable studies into the correlation between substance abuse and mental health, but I can say that one study showed 8.9 million adults in the USA have admitted to having an addiction and a psychiatric disorder.

What are the biggest misconceptions about mental health and drug abuse, and without giving too much away how do you deal with these in the film?


“The drug is the problem.” I’ve heard this one a lot. But the same people who say this don’t ask “What caused them to seek it out?” 

In APOCRYPHAL we address the desperation and need for people to escape what they feel are injustices or stigmas. They turn to drugs not because they think it’s amusing, but because it provides relief from their suffering albeit temporary.

As someone who suffers from some extreme mental health issues, it has been a subject that is very close to my heart, how can sites like myself and the genre as a whole help to shed light on it?

Talk. We’ve probably all seen people ranting on social media about their mental health, but that’s not a call for attention, it’s a call for help. With that said, it can be exhausting looking after somebody with mental health and that’s why we should encourage those in need to seek help. The burden isn’t all yours to carry.

I’ll be the first to admit that Cognitive Behavioural Therapy changed - if not saved - my life, however it was a long arduous journey and took three therapists for me to recover. People need to be listened to, and be told that it’s okay to feel the way they do. But they also need encouragement to be pushed into the right direction. 

The horror genre can help with that too, by not depicting those with problems as “weak” or “dangerous.” It’s a real strength in itself to live with mental illness and that should be highlighted.

You have assembled a very diverse cast and crew for this film, was representation something you actively embraced on when making the film?

To create art I find it’s vital to have as diverse a crew as possible. Many people still look at ‘others’ pushing causes unbeknownst to them, but if you boil it down we’re all looking for the same fundamental rights.


You are working with Bafta award winning writer Toby Venables ('HIS HOUSE'), how did you come to work with him on this film?

He was actually my screenwriting professor 14 years ago! Wow, that seems so long ago now. But we continued staying in touch after I graduated since he said I had a gift for writing I shouldn’t give up on. 

I sent him the script to APOCRYPHAL over a year ago now, and we’ve been working on making it as incredible as possible since.

Had 'HIS HOUSE' won a Bafta when you started working together, and if not did you do a little dance of joy when it won?

When we had started working on APOCRYPHAL 'HIS HOUSE' had just been picked up by Netflix. And when it won the BAFTA he was honestly more modest in celebration than I was. He’s just an all-round nice guy.

What does having a writer like him onboard bring to the table?

I know now we have a really powerful story on our hands, and that it’s something many people would really enjoy watching. 

It’s also just comforting to hear from people like him that you’re talented at what you do.

You are using Kickstarter to help fund the film, it’s a great resource, but it can’t be without some pitfalls, what are some of the things people should be aware of when using it?

Kickstarter is great because it’s all or nothing. Which means if people donate and the film isn’t funded, they don’t pay. It makes it more nerve wracking for people such as my team though! That’s the only pitfall I can think of, and it doesn’t affect the donors!

Crowdfunding’s so especially welcomed by our community since funding is becoming harder and harder to obtain, especially in a pandemic. Art is always the first thing to be cut in recessions.

It also means we have more control over the film, and there’s a tendency for big production companies to take over the true morals or themes. This way we can provide what the audience deserves, and evolve horror into a more progressive genre.

Even though you are crowdfunding APOCRYPHAL you have sunk a lot of your money into the project, how far into the film are you?  

Pre-production is over. Which basically means we’ve done the writing, budgeting, storyboarding and casting amongst many other things. I don’t really make any money from my films - although that’s the dream! Despite thousands of hits on platforms like Amazon I’ve probably made about a tenner! 

To help fund the film I’ve also been working 14 hour shifts at COVID testing sites. Swabbing noses and tonsils doesn’t give much room for financing a film, mind! Plus I’m not getting paid from the crowdfunding since everything raised is going towards making the film as enjoyable as possible.


What will the crowdfunding be used for?

Equipment hire, costume, color correction, sound mixing, and so much more. But now the added cost of ensuring our cast and crew are safe during a pandemic must be considered too.

A lot of Kickstarters live and die based on the perks they offer, can you tell us about some of the perks you will be offering?

As well as Digital Downloads, the Soundtrack, and a “Behind the Scenes Short Film”, we’re also offering a unique sketch of donors as an alien! They’re entirely unique and each with their own bio. There are also producer credits, personalised videos from the characters in the film, and even the realistic looking silicone alien costume we’re using on offer. The alien suit honestly gives me nightmares! Honestly there are so many perks I should open up a market stall.

We’re also offering some really great sweepstakes and milestone challenges along the way! The campaign ends in June, so we’re doing everything possible to bring it to life.

Once the film is fully funded, how long will it be before the film is completed and ready for distribution?

We’re looking to film in July, and working towards having it done by October or the end of the year tops! We’re all very much a team that works hard when all systems are go!

Where will we be able to watch it once it is released?

Our team has contacts within DUST - the largest sci-fi platform - and SHUDDER - the largest horror platform. Those platforms are our priority, as well as Netflix, but if those deals fall through you’ll be able to watch it on Amazon Prime for free.

Do you have any plans for your next project?

Oh yes! We’ve been working pre-production on another project for the past 3 years! It’s a huge production with horror and science fiction, but I can’t say anything more. You’ll have to follow our socials to stay tuned about that!

Oh and before we go, why does Peppa Pig show up when you click on your name on amazon?  

Honestly I have no idea! But that damned Peppa Pig follows me everywhere! Even on IMDB! I’m starting to think Peppa Pig is the scariest creature known to man...

Just want to add people will be able to fund the cause at www.apocmovie.com and it ends 17th of June 2021.

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