Today Ginger Nuts of Horror, and The Fantasy Book Nerd interview Mark Stay author of the brilliant Witches of Woodville series of novels, and one of the two minds behind the excellent  horror movie Unwelcome out in cinemas now.  

One of the things I wanted to ask about the film is the title, Unwelcome. The title works on multiple levels for me, not just to describe the Unwelcome attention of the Redcaps for Maya & Jamie. How did you come up with the title?
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We didn’t! We started with Redcaps, but there was a TV show with a similar title a while ago about the military police and we thought there might be some confusion. Then we had The Little People for the longest time, but we discovered that didn’t travel beyond UK/Eire in that no one knew what it meant in a folk horror context. I wanted to call it Mother Redcap, but people felt that was a bit of a spoiler. So Warner Bros. sent us a list of alternates and Unwelcome was the one that stood out, and they have a good track record with horror movies with one or two word titles, so who were we to argue?

The Celtic nations seem to have a far different relationship with the Fae Folk than many other countries, in that we are more fearful of them, or at least less trusting of them; why do you think that is?

I’ve been reading a book called Meeting the other Crowd which is full of testimonies from Irish people who claim to have encountered Fae Folk and it’s fascinating stuff. With any interaction with the Fae there’s always a price to pay and I think that’s where the fear and unease comes from. In my experience, Celtic folk have a very generous spirit and are quick to offer hospitality and a laugh (the craic!), so maybe the Fae are the dark side to that kindness?

When did fairies and the such become cuddly lovely people, and why did they all become a bunch of Tinkerbells?

Disney. Always blame Disney.

The Redcaps in the film are different from the Redcaps I know from my Scottish roots. Ours like to kill you by throwing stones at you and bathing in our blood, is this version based on a real Irish version of them, or did you come up with your version?

Ours are a mashup of different cultures. I think they’re closest to the ones you find in Northern England if I recall. But it was important to me that we make these Redcaps our own because once you start researching this stuff you soon discover that no one can actually agree on a single mythology, and every culture has their own version of them with minor variations on how they kill and behave. Believe it or not, I think some of these monsters might not actually exist...

So, for the parts of Maya and Jamie, did you have anyone in particular in mind when you were writing the film, and then how did you get the lead actors involved?

We didn’t write those roles with anyone in particular in mind. Jamie is based very much on Jon and I being complete wusses when it comes to confrontations and violence, and Maya is an amalgam of all the no-nonsense women in our lives. Our casting director, Kelly Valentine Henry, did a brilliant job of bringing the ensemble together and I love the chemistry between Douglas and Hannah. They feel like a real couple to me.

The cast is fantastic (including yourself, of course). Did you manage to catch any of them on set? And did you have any embarrassing fanboy moments?

Ah, yes, I play the key role of “Man in Pub”, completely essential to the plot I assure you. You’ve blown my scam wide open. I only write these films to boost my flagging acting career!

I wasn’t on set much, but as a Star Trek fan it was great to chat with Colm Meaney, and I somehow managed to remain professional and not ask about warp drives. My first encounter with Niamh Cusack was a lovely one because when I was starting out as an actor my aunt wrote to Niamh asking her for advice. Niamh replied with a wonderful letter of encouragement. It was great to finally thank her in person for it.

Why Ireland? Was there a specific reason that you chose Ireland as a setting?

Jon Wright, the film’s director, might not sound Irish, but he was born and bred there. And my mum’s side of the family are from Limerick and Cork, and we’ve grown up hearing stories from Celtic mythology and, with the exception of the Cartoon Saloon animations (which I adore), they haven’t really been done on film. We didn’t want this to be just another US/Brit folk horror.

How has the film been received in Ireland?

No idea. I’m too scared to look! We gave the script to Irish writer friends and asked them to highlight anything egregious that would get us barred from Eire. My biggest mistake in the script was putting a fruit machine in the pub. The writer Caimh McDonnell was quick to point out that Irish pubs don’t have fruit machines! I’m also proud that we set a scene in an Irish pub and no one started singing or playing a fiddle or a bodhrán.

Did you always have the idea that the Redcaps would be more of a physical presence rather than being computer generated?

Ever since seeing Spike Jones’s Where the Wild Things Are, Jon and I have wanted to have creatures in a film that have the physical presence of an actor combined with the kind of expressive faces you get with CG, and this was the perfect opportunity to use every tool in the box to bring them to life. I don’t want to say too much about how they were created, but I think they’re incredibly effective... and they’re not puppets!

When I was watching the film, I got different kinds of feels from horror films of the seventies and eighties, but there also seemed to be a whole range of other eras. Were any of these things in your mind when writing the film, like any specific movies?

Jon and I grew up in that era, so we’re steeped in those films and there are tons of little references and moments, but the one specific reference that Jon brought to me was the final story in Lewis Teague’s Cat’s Eye where a little goblin torments Drew Barrymore and her cat. We loved that combination of mischief and danger.

You play with the audience's expectations constantly. Was that something Jon and you decided on early in writing, or was it organic in its development?

Playing with expectations is my job as writer. I’ll often present the reader/viewer with a situation they think they know and then try and surprise and delight them. I think a writer should live in fear of boring their audience.

The film's original release date was February last year, but, unfortunately, it kept getting pushed back. What happened?

Omicron happened. Cinema is still coming to terms with a post-Covid world and the old marketing strategies aren’t always working. People are going to see the tentpole blockbusters in big numbers, but anything that’s not a big franchise is a very risky proposition for the distributors.

And the chains have figured out that they can make more money showing classic movies. My kids went to see the first two Shrek movies recently and they were packed out. I’ve recently seen The Godfather and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan at my local cinema and it was full of people like me who never got to see them on the big screen the first time around. The cinemas get a much better share of the ticket revenue from these golden oldies than they will showing a new film. In a time when attendances are down, why not go with a sure bet?

Releasing new films is expensive, and marketing them often costs more than the production budget. I’m still amazed we got a theatrical release, especially as it’s not been backed by any significant marketing spend. There are no TV ads or posters, so I’m gobsmacked that anyone’s seen it!

So, as I understand, the film came about with Jon Wright and yourself having a conversation about pacifism and what it would take to push you to violence. The protection of family came up, but was it a conscious decision to have Maya pregnant rather than have them already have a family?

Jon and I hate violence and fighting. We love it in films, but in real life it gives me the shakes and whenever I’ve succumbed to violence (not since I was a kid in a playground scrap, I hasten to add!) I never liked how it changed me and what it brought out in me. We wanted to take a really progressive couple and confront them with gleeful malevolence that can’t be reasoned with to see what it would take for them to snap. And when peaceful people snap, they really go nuts. A big influence on this story wasn’t a horror film, but Mike Leigh’s Nuts in May. Roger Sloman brilliantly plays a man who keeps his voice and temper even when his peaceful camping holiday is ruined by others, until he can’t hold it in any longer and he ends up screaming and waving a stick around like a prehistoric savage. It’s really affecting and disturbing.

And pregnancy’s combination of vulnerability and strength was fascinating to me. As Maya says in the film, “Don’t fuck with Mama Bear.”

Did Unwelcome always have a more serious tone to the narrative? Is there a version where the humour comes more to the fore?

It’s interesting you say that, because I think it’s a funny film, but that doesn’t mean it’s not serious. Laughing and screaming are close cousins. The conversation near the end where two people argue whether the Redcap is a monkey escaped from a zoo is a case in point. When we’re scared we’ll make a joke. But there does come a time towards the end of a script’s development where you wheedle out the self-indulgent stuff, and humour is often the first victim of that cull. Gags might not seem funny after a few drafts and they’re often extraneous and easy to cut. Sometimes that might be a mistake. But I think we have a good balance in this one.

I loved how the script dealt with the concept of masculinity; it is unusual to have the male protagonist be such an ineffectual and, at times, toxic element in the film. Was this a conscious decision to make?

Absolutely. Jon and I both come from working class families where you’re expected to be handy in a fight. We had lots of frank conversations about fears and our childhoods, and we discovered that both our fathers bought us boxing gloves as gifts. Jon refused to wear his and told his father he was a pacifist. I sparred with friends just once with mine and was knocked unconscious. As much as we might fantasise about being James Bond or Indiana Jones, the truth is we’re closer to Mr Bean. It’s about time that Wimpy Masculinity was explored in cinema!

As I have said, I loved how the film pushed the expectations, particularly the utterly horrifying beginning. You don't ease the audience in, do you 😂? Did you want to make the boundaries from the beginning consciously?

We knew it would take time to reveal the Redcaps in the story, so it was important to reassure the horror fans that there would be blood and terror, and there’s nothing more terrifying than a home invasion when you’re on the loo. And we knew this wasn’t going to be your typical Quiet-Bang! jump scare horror. We wanted to get under people’s skin and we started by exploring the things that made us uneasy, starting with the kind of people who relish violence and can’t be reasoned with. If you’re a pacifist, how do you cope with someone kicking your door down?

The Witches of Woodville has been an enormous success; its magnificent mixture of whimsy and darkness speaks to many of us. Do you know what the age demographics are for the readership, are many adults of our age captivated by the same feel the books evoke while watching and reading such classics as the Stone Tapes, Come Back Lucy, and Worzel Gummidge?

Thank you! I did a reader survey just before Christmas and I’ve got readers aged from 10 to 70+, so in terms of a demographic... who knows? Gorgeous people with exquisite taste and a sense of humour.

I often pitch the series as “The last ten minutes of Bedknobs and Broomsticks meets Dad’s Army.” It’s light and frothy, but there are Nazis and demonic forces and death. This might feel like an odd combination, but I grew up watching Bagpuss, Salem’s Lot, The Omen and horrifying public information films where kids were regularly bumped off. I was reading the Usborne World of the Unknown, Stephen King, and When the Wind Blows. On the radio we had 99 Red Balloons and Two Tribes. It’s a miracle I’m sane.

What was the initial audience for The Witches of Woodville when you first started to write the series?

Me. My first draft is always for me as I scratch various writing itches. For subsequent drafts I focus on trying to delight the reader. I’ve had great fun hearing from Woodville readers and the things they love about the series, and the knack now is to deliver what they want while still surprising them. It’s a challenge every time, but stops it from being boring.

Could you ever see a crossover between Woodville and Unwelcome?

Ha! Redcaps versus the Witches of Woodville? The Redcaps wouldn’t stand a chance.

It must be a great feeling to see the film out in the world finally, but are you taking a break, or can you tell us what you are working on now?

It’s an amazing feeling and a relief to have the film finally out there. I can’t afford to take a break, though. I’m skint! I’ve just delivered the fourth Witches of Woodville book to my publisher. It’s called The Holly King and it’s a Christmas story about secrets and trauma, and I really put poor Faye and the witches through the wringer. Nothing will be the same after this one.
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Jon and I have been working on various film and TV projects, and I’ve got a musical romcom (yes, really!) feature film in development with another writer. There’s a Disney+ TV show coming that will have a “Based on an idea by” credit from me. Sadly, I didn’t get to write on it. Maybe they didn’t like my non-Disney take on fairies and goblins? And I think I’ve just written the first draft of a middle grade fantasy novella that I’m not sure what to do with... I’ll figure it out eventually, I suppose. But I write every day now. I love it. And it’s a privilege and I’d be daft to waste it.

​Mark Stay got a part-time Christmas job at Waterstone’s in the nineties (back when it still had an apostrophe) and, despite being working class and quite lippy, somehow ended up working in publishing for over 25 years. He would write in his spare time and sometimes those writings would get turned into books and films, including the Witches of Woodville series from Simon & Schuster, and the 2023 Warner Bros. horror movie Unwelcome.
Mark is also co-presenter of the Bestseller Experiment podcast, which has inspired writers all over the world to finish and publish their books. Born in London, he lives in Kent with Youtube gardener and writer Claire Burgess and a declining assortment of retired chickens.

'Beautiful and engaging and clever and what more could you ask for in a book?'--Manda Scott, bestselling author of A Treachery of Spies

'A story that is full of magic and delight that will thrill readers of any age'--Rowan Coleman, author of The Girl at the Window

'Extremely funny, full of imagination, verve and typical English ‘home counties’ wit'--Irish Independent 

As Spitfires roar overhead and a dark figure stalks the village of Woodville, a young woman will discover her destiny . . .

Faye Bright always felt a little bit different. And today she’s found out why. She’s just stumbled across her late mother’s diary which includes not only a spiffing recipe for jam roly-poly, but spells, incantations, runes and recitations . . . a witch's notebook.

And Faye has inherited her mother’s abilities. 

Just in time, too. The Crow Folk are coming. Led by the charismatic Pumpkinhead, their strange magic threatens Faye and the villagers. Armed with little more than her mum's words, her trusty bicycle, the grudging help of two bickering old ladies, and some aggressive church bellringing, Faye will find herself on the front lines of a war nobody expected.

For fans of Lev Grossman and Terry Pratchett comes this delightful novel of war, mystery and a little bit of magic . . .

Don't miss the other magical books in the WITCHES OF WOODVILLE series!
#1 The Crow Folk
#2 Babes in the Wood
#3 The Ghost of Ivy Barn ​

Could you tell the readers a little bit about yourself?


I’m a New England transplant currently living in Southern California. I write horror, fantasy, science fiction and weird west stories, dozens of which have been published internationally in podcasts, anthologies and magazines. In addition, I co-founded the San Diego chapter of the Horror Writers Association.


When I’m not tending to two tiny humans, I enjoy seeking out new coffee shops, vintage X-Men comics, beachside towns, and carnivals. I also love collecting Back to the Future memorabilia.

Other than the horror genre, what else has been a major influence on your writing?


Science fiction, both in films and books, has had a big influence on me. Growing up, I loved X-Files and comics. The works of sci-fi luminaries like Octavia Butler, Ursula Le Guin, Philip K. Dick, William Gibson, George Orwell, and many others opened my eyes to various styles of brilliant writing in the genre.


There’s also a lot of crossover between science fiction and horror that I enjoy. When I was younger, I was obsessed over The Twilight Zone as well as movies like the Alien trilogy, The Fly, and Independence Day. These influenced my writing in several ways: dealing with enormous stakes, subverting expectations, and facing a fear of the unknown.


The term horror, especially when applied to fiction always carries such heavy connotations.  What’s your feeling on the term “horror” and what do you think we can do to break past these assumptions?

Many audiences associate horror with graphic, senseless violence and pulpy storytelling. In particular, horror isn’t always recognized for its ability to be intellectual or to convey meaningful insights. Modern creators like Jordan Peele, Michael Flannigan, and others who push the bar with fresh takes on horror tropes are helping to change those popular cultural notions.

A lot of good horror movements have arisen as a direct result of the socio/political climate, considering the current state of the world where do you see horror going in the next few years?


I think it’s always a good time for cosmic and sci-fi horror, especially as we’re faced with the rapidly changing (deteriorating) state of our ecological world and societal structures. A sense of unknown looms especially large in this uncertain future. That foreboding—juxtaposed with the excess of frenzied information and extreme isolation many are contending with—makes right now an excellent time to deal with fears and stressors through the catharsis of horror.

What, if anything, is currently missing from the horror genre?

I would love to see more diversity and varied women characters throughout, as well as a better male/female ratio in movies (this goes for most genres). It’s improved, but there’s still a lot of stereotypes and cliched writing in popular horror books and movies.

What aspects of writing to do you find the most difficult?

For me, the first draft is the most difficult and intense part of writing. As fun as it is to create worlds for the first time, I also find it stressful since my process is more of a “pantser” and very inefficient—it pains me to throw away thousands of words that end up not fitting into the piece.

Is there one subject you would never write about as an author?

I typically don’t write excess graphic violence – I’m too squeamish to go into really extreme horror and it doesn’t serve my writing.


Writing, is not a static process, how have you developed as a writer over the years?

As a kid and teen, I wrote several (unpublished) fantasy and sci-fi novels. During college I took a long break from creative writing as I tried to figure out what to do with my life. Once I settled into a career I enjoyed and my adult life became more stable, I returned to writing more seriously, first short stories, and then novels.

What is the best piece of advice you ever received with regards to your writing?

I like the advice of not strictly adhering to any specific writing tips. I first came across this suggestion from Chuck Wendig’s blog and it was liberating. Rather than stressing over a particular writing tip (e.g., “write every day”), I try to stay fluid and experiment with different outlines, structures, schedules, etc. to see what best yields forward movement for that particular story.


Can you tell us about your last book, and can you tell us about what you are working on next?

My debut horror-fantasy western novel, Melinda West: Monster Gunslinger (Brigids Gate Press, February 2023) is like “The Witcher meets Bonnie and Clyde,” featuring a re-imagined Old West full of monsters, diverse characters and fast-paced adventure. The main characters, stoic sharpshooter Melinda West, 29, and her charismatic partner, Lance, offer their monster-exterminating services to desperate towns in the Old West. They fight everything from giant flying scorpions to psychic bugs until they accidentally release a vengeful demon that steals their friend’s soul. They must travel across treacherous lands to track a dangerous outlaw and battle a menagerie of creatures—all before an army of soul-devouring demons descend on Earth.


I’m currently at work on the second Melinda West book, which will feature even more gruesome monsters and an ensemble of new characters and towns.


If you could erase one horror cliché what would be your choice?

One horror cliché that annoys me is a character slowly entering dark rooms or basements calling out “hello.” I’d be in and out of there quickly and quietly. Also, people staring in silent horror at their blood-soaked hands is a visual that’s been overdone.

What's the one question you wish you would get asked but never do?  And what would be the answer?
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I like the question, “what type of character would you be in a horror movie or book?” Personally, I’d like to be the keeper of arcane-but-useful knowledge, such as the bookseller/store owner/mystic/etc. who has the air of mystery and helps the protagonist put together the pieces of the puzzle in the second act.

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In an Old West overrun by monsters, a stoic gunslinger must embark on a dangerous quest to save her friends and stop a supernatural war.

Sharpshooter Melinda West, 29, has encountered more than her share of supernatural creatures after a monster infection killed her mother. Now, Melinda and her charismatic partner, Lance, offer their exterminating services to desperate towns, fighting everything from giant flying scorpions to psychic bugs. But when they accidentally release a demon, they must track a dangerous outlaw across treacherous lands and battle a menagerie of creatures—all before an army of soul-devouring monsters descend on Earth.

The Witcher meets Bonnie and Clyde in a re-imagined Old West full of diverse characters, desolate landscapes, and fast-paced adventure.

Could you tell the readers a little bit about yourself?

I’m a writer, film critic and filmmaker based in Columbus, Ohio.

Which one of your characters would you least like to meet in real life?

I’d least like to meet Brian from the short story “Aggrieved” in the new anthology Incubate, not because I’d be afraid of him but because he’s terribly unpleasant.

Other than the horror genre, what else has been a major influence on your writing?

My family. My sisters, my husband, my son – they’re all such vivid, fascinating people. I love the way they talk and think, and I steal from them all the time for stories.


The term horror, especially when applied to fiction, always carries such heavy connotations.  What’s your feeling on the term “horror” and what do you think we can do to break past these assumptions?

I love the term horror, but I respect the fact that a lot of people don’t. It does bother me when something that’s clearly horror – The Silence of the Lambs or Get Out, for instance – gets relabeled as “psychological thriller” because the people dishing out labels can’t deny its quality. That offends me, as if it’s impossible for something to be both horror and of high quality. But I do recognize that a lot of people go out of their way not to be scared, the world is scary enough and that’s not how they escape. For a lot of us, that is how we escape, or at least how we deal with things.

A lot of good horror movements have arisen as a direct result of the socio/political climate. Considering the current state of the world, where do you see horror going in the next few years?

I predict a lot of stridently, magnificently feminist horror – not unlike Incubate. The #MeToo movement awakened something and there’s been tremendous struggle to hold on to what little progress was made. Anti-trans legislation and attacks on women’s autonomy have turned the entire U.S. into hostile territory. All art, and horror in particular, reflects the culture of its time. Misogyny is hardly new, but it is so out in the open right now, it is such a violent attack, that it’s bound to be reflected in horror.
Given the dark, violent and at times grotesque nature of the horror genre, why do you think so many people enjoy reading it?

Because you survive it. No matter what happens to characters, and no matter what kind of horror you enjoy, the fact is that you, the reader, make it out alive. It’s cathartic and safe.

What, if anything, is currently missing from the horror genre?

New voices, which is what’s missing from every art form and medium. I love Poe, I love Stoker, but it’s hard not to feel like you’re reading the same story when every story you read came from the imagination of a heterosexual, middle aged white man. The adage is that there are only so many stories and they are constantly being retold, but maybe that’s not true. Maybe it just seems like it because, since Aristotle, we’ve almost exclusively heard stories told by men. I want to read stories that are wildly new to me – stories that speak to what I know personally, and stories born of experiences I have never had.

What new and upcoming authors do you think we should take notice of?

The writers in the collection Incubate – LCW Allingham, River Eno, Dale W. Glaser, Sydney Hodges, A.R.C. Mitra, Maureen O’Leary, Sofia Tantono and Ef Deal – are remarkable. Many of these women are veteran writers, but I want to call each out because I so enjoyed their work in this anthology. Samantha Kolesnik and Hailey Piper have written my favorite books of the last couple of years.

Are there any reviews of your work, positive or negative, that have stayed with you?

One reader said a story made him feel like he was peering through a back porch screen, witnessing something he wasn’t supposed to see. I loved that, (and also admired his ability to conjure an image).

What aspects of writing to do you find the most difficult?

I always struggle finding the balance between saying too much and not saying enough.

Is there one subject you would never write about as an author?

I think there is probably an angle you can take that respects every topic. I don’t know if there’s anything I’d forbid myself from writing about, but that’s the glory of horror. Anything you would not want to write about is likely horrific, so in this genre, you may be able to show that horror without exploiting it.


I cannot imagine writing romance, though.


Writing is not a static process. How have you developed as a writer over the years?

When I finish something, I evaluate for myself what I did well and what maybe needs work. I tend to write dialog well, and I also tend to rely too heavily on dialog to tell the story because I do it well. So, this year I wrote one story with no dialog at all, to force myself to concentrate on other story elements. Then I wrote one in second person, which is to say, I wrote one that was exclusively dialog. I think I just try to make sure I don’t get lazy, don’t write the same thing or the same way each time.

What is the best piece of advice you ever received with regards to your writing?

Not to self-censor. Writing is hard. For me, it’s best to write exactly what’s in my head as it comes into my head without deciding if it’s valuable, if it’s mean, if it’s nasty or whatever. If it turns out to be too much, I can always edit it later.


Which of your characters is your favourite?

There’s a character in a film I wrote that I love the most. He’s a pastry chef who sings macabre versions of Christmas carols as he uses his culinary skills on hapless victims. He’s, to me, such a bizarre mix of cartoonish comedy and real terror that he makes me proud.

Which of your books best represents you?

Roost is, essentially, an autobiography peppered with fictional murders. It’s set in my hometown, in my childhood home, and populated with my sisters, parents, neighbors. It’s very me.

Do you have a favorite line or passage from your work, and would you like to share it with us?

Damn, nothing tastes as good as self-righteous indignation and cowardice.


Can you tell us about your last book, and can you tell us about what you are working on next?

Incubate, an anthology from Speculation Publication that contains one of my short stories, is the latest. The entire collection harnesses the rage inspired by recent orchestrated attacks on women’s autonomy, and in particular the attack on Roe v Wade, and I’m honored to be included.


I’ve just finished a draft of a new novella about a horror movie festival judge whose own life starts to look like the movies she’s watching. I’m a massive, massive horror movie nerd, so it’s been really fun to write.

If you could erase one horror cliché, what would be your choice?

“The death of a beautiful woman is unquestionably the most poetical topic in the world.”


Fuck that. Just fuck it right in the eyeball. God, I am so tired of that.

What was the last great book you read, and what was the last book that disappointed you?

I loved Samantha Kolesnik’s True Crime so very much.


On the other hand, I just read one of Charles Bukowski’s last publications, a memoir of sorts from his final years illustrated by Robert Crumb called The Captain Is Out to Lunch and the Sailors Have Taken Over the Ship. I was underwhelmed, which surprised me because I love him.

What's the one question you wish you would get asked but never do?  And what would be the answer?

Q: Where do you find reasonably priced, flattering women’s jeans with a 36” inseam??


A: I wish I knew.

Could you tell the readers a little bit about yourself?


I’ve wanted to tell stories for as long as I can remember. I love the art and tradition of storytelling. As a child, using action figures from numerous and very different franchises, I created Rube Goldberg-like domino rallies that would explode into action with a nudge. That evolved into writing down stories, creating home video movies, and finally studying writing in college. It’s been a journey, for sure.

Which one of your characters would you least like to meet in real life?
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Most of them! My published work contains characters that are just horrible people or amoral monsters. Wanda from Portrait of a Nuclear Family is particularly bad since she strives to maintain the appearance of a normal, loving housewife and mother while hiding in her home committing horrific acts. I would hate to walk into her house for her to decide to “improve” me.

Other than the horror genre, what else has been a major influence on your writing?


It’s a cheap answer, but everything. I started out reading Tolkien, then DragonLance, then Rice, then Vonnegut. I could list authors all day. Now, I mix in various non-fiction books into my TBR list to find and develop new and different ideas, to feed the mental compost pile as Neil Gaiman would call it. There is something to learn from everything and anything you consume, even if what you learn is, “I would never do that if I wrote it.”


The term horror, especially when applied to fiction always carries such heavy connotations.  What’s your feeling on the term “horror” and what do you think we can do to break past these assumptions?


When I think of horror, the first thing that comes to mind are the slasher movies of the ‘80s. That was my very first exposure to the genre, but I’ve come to realize that horror isn’t just blood and guts. It’s the psychological trauma of being powerless, facing overpowering fears, and the fight to overcome. In a lot of horror, the protagonist fails, but they almost always find the will or desperation to fight, win or lose.
To break these assumptions would require an effort from television and movies to step away from the idea of cheap scares like the jump scare or buckets of blood spraying everywhere. We need to get back to diving into the characters and their fight. Monsters are fun, for sure, but how about a monster that has a motive the viewer can understand beyond, “kill, eat, next.” The most effective villains are the ones the audience see their twisted point of view and begrudgingly relate to them.

A lot of good horror movements have arisen as a direct result of the socio/political climate, considering the current state of the world where do you see horror going in the next few years?


It could go in several directions. There’s the evergreen possibility of the social dystopia or a rash of escapist monster-of-the-week stories. With the current trends and discussions regarding choice, preferred pronouns, and identity, there is an opening for some very interesting body horror stories for the right person to explore. I would be very interested in reading that.

Given the dark, violent, and at times grotesque nature of the horror genre why do you think so many people enjoy reading it?


Everyone enjoys some level of a scare. Grandparents enjoy being startled by their grandchildren, but may not want to watch even the tamest of horror movies they can find on many of the streaming services these days. That release of tension after a good scare can be invigorating.
It also gives us a safe way to confront the ideas and imagery that may haunt us in our nightmares and imaginations. Horror spans such a rich and diverse spectrum, there is something for everyone if they are willing to explore the options ranging from the horror comedy to the most extreme slaughterhouse blood fest.

What, if anything, is currently missing from the horror genre?


I think one would be hard pressed to pinpoint something missing. The genre spans centuries, continents, and cultures to the point that writers throughout the ages have adapted little known folktales into full fledged franchises. If there is an unexplored corner for horror to squeeze into, I would be astonished.

What new and upcoming authors do you think we should take notice off?


I’m pretty new and up-coming! Though a few names have fluttered by on social media. Daniel Volpe, Rebecca Rowland, Brianna Morgan, and Stephen King… That guy is just not getting any attention. It’s a travesty.


Are there any reviews of your work, positive or negative that have stayed with you?

Of course! All the negative reviews stay with you if you’re foolish enough to read them. Everything from, “What a waste of time,” to “It just didn’t work for me. Too obvious.” The negative reviews with constructive advice as wonderful, though. I know I’m still trying to figure this whole job out, so constructive criticism is always useful, even if it stings the first time around.
Positive reviews leave a warm, glowing feeling in me that help keep me going while collecting the rejections. Nothing specific in a review has stayed with me, but the people who I form friendships with afterward have been a great emotional support when I’m getting frustrated in the middle of a project.

What aspects of writing to do you find the most difficult?
Rewriting and rejection.
I’ve gotten better at dealing with rejection. I only start to get annoyed at the tenth consecutive one rather than the third. Baby steps.
Rewriting is just the worst for me. I love coming up with the idea, plotting it, and discovering all the details as I write. Once that rough draft is done, going back over it is a slog. I get short bursts of enjoyment when I discover an element that needs exploring, but those are short lived. But as many have stated, “writing is rewriting,” so I do the job and try to find something in the process to enjoy and keep moving forward.

Is there one subject you would never write about as an author?
I don’t like to say never, but it is highly improbable I will ever write erotica or anything overly romantic. That’s just not my wheelhouse.


Writing, is not a static process, how have you developed as a writer over the years?
I’ve become more disciplined with a daily routine and learned to emotionally compartmentalize the work. In order to receive and consider the feedback of alpha and beta readers, a little emotional distance is required. Leaning into one’s strengths, not one’s hopes, is another important lesson. One may want to write like a specific writer, but that may not be the writer one is.
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I hope my work is becoming better and more sophisticated, but that isn’t for me to judge.


What is the best piece of advice you ever received with regards to your writing?

Brian Stelfreeze, known for his work in comics such as Black Panther, Domino, and Demon/Catwoman, once read an early draft of a graphic novel script I am still trying to get published. He said, “Your dialogue is beautiful. It’s like watching two dancers flowing together in a well-choreographed ballet. That’s wrong. Dialogue should be like a sword fight! ‘I want this!’ thrust “But I want this other thing!” parry. Your characters may want similar things, but no one wants exactly the same thing. Everyone should be maneuvering for better position to strike the winning blow and win the prize.”


That has stuck with me for something like fifteen years. I will never forget it.


Which of your characters is your favourite?

Published? Probably, Wanda, even though I would never want to meet her. She’s by far my most fleshed-out character and I am super proud of that.

Unpublished? I have a half-decayed, insane, capuchin monkey called Mr. Wriggles in the YA Fantasy I’m working on now who speaks in rhymes and reappears and disappears like the Cheshire Cat. How could I not love that one?


Which of your books best represents you?

Well, as I only have one, I would have to answer Portrait of a Nuclear Family. It definitely represents the struggle one fights against when battling mental illness. Wanda suffers her “one bad day” and goes off the rails. The people around her either enable or disregard her problems until they are well out of hand for anyone to course correct. So, in that way, it’s a worst nightmare scenario for any parent or anyone silently suffering from a mental illness who is too afraid of what others might think if they asked for help.

Do you have a favorite line or passage from your work, and would you like to share it with us?


Nothing comes to mind. I have an odd relationship with my work. No matter how many times I go over it, I always feel the need to rewrite it or tweak it, of delete it outright. I only stop rewriting when the idea of going over it one more time makes me want to punch my computer screen. That’s when it goes out to beta readers. They always find lines they end up loving, so I tend to leave those alone, but nothing sticks out at me as personally noteworthy. Not yet, at least.


Can you tell us about your last book, and can you tell us about what you are working on next?


My most recent novel is Portrait of a Nuclear Family. It follows Wanda who discovers her older son, Nathan, is hiding a secret that threatens to tear apart the façade of the perfect family she’s worked endlessly to present to the community. After confronting Nathan with what she’s found, events turn from bad to worse as she struggles to keep the horrors within her own walls from escaping into the world for all to see.


The book I’m working on is the perfect follow-up to an extreme psychological horror novel, a YA Fantasy! Billy is going through a rough time and in a burst of self-involved anger falls through the cracks in reality to find a young blind girl who has lived there for almost fifty years, her decaying, insane capuchin monkey pet, and angelic creatures bent on his capture. The book explores the idea of beautiful evils and honorable monsters as our heroes explore a vast new world and rekindle the hopes and fears of it’s peoples.

If you could erase one horror cliché what would be your choice?

Smart characters doing incredibly stupid things. Post-apocalyptic survivors keep making bad decisions that should have gotten them killed within the first week of the end of the world. Groups keep splitting up in the haunted house/murder house. The guy who got bit by the zombie and hid it but no one notices him acting all sketchy.

It drives me nuts.

What was the last great book you read, and what was the last book that disappointed you?


I’m currently reading Ken Liu’s collection The Hidden Girl and Other Stories. The book is a treasure and he has found a steadfast reader for all time.


It’s been a very long time since I read a book that disappointed me. Some books I go into knowing that it’s not going to be a literary masterpiece so there is no disappointment. I’m reading it for nostalgia’s sake.

I read Sock by Penn Jillette back in 2013 and found it underwhelming. I’m very careful about what I read and there is a lot of great stuff to easily fill the TBR library.

What's the one question you wish you would get asked but never do?  And what would be the answer?


I don’t have a question I hope to get asked, but I do have one that I think no one should ever ask the same way again.


“What is the best piece of advice you can give to a starting out writer/struggling writer?”


I hear this question at so many workshops, convention panels, and in author FAQS. The answer is always the same.


“Write all the time. Read all the time.”


That’s it. That is the universal answer. So, my suggestion to everyone out there is when you ask the above question, amend it to, “What is the best piece of advice you can give to a starting out writer/struggling writer OTHER THAN write and read all the time?”


Hopefully, you’ll get more interesting answers.

You wake up and find yourself in a horror franchise, what franchise would you prefer to wake up in and why?


With what I put my characters through why would I ever voluntarily go into a Horror movie? You would have to take me kicking and screaming! In all seriousness, probably Hush, as that deaf woman was one badass MF who wouldn’t go down without a fight.


You find yourself as the “Final One”  which monster / villain would you most like to go up against and why do you think you would survive?


It would have to be against Ghostface, from Scream, as I wouldn’t be that guy who falls over at the pivotal moment. Also, I’d wear a stab-proof vest, I dunno why no one thought of that in the movies.


And which creature would you least like to go up against?


Definitely Michael Myers. You just can’t kill that dude. I mean he’s been stabbed, shot, burnt, drowned(?) and shot into space. . . OK, not shot into space, but that’s probably what they’ll do with the new movie. Michael Myers vs the Asteroid from Outer Space!


You find yourself in Scooby Doo, which character are you, and who would most like to have as the other members of Mystery Inc?

That would definitely be Shaggy, and you have to bring Scooby Doo with you. As someone who grew up on Cartoon Network, you know I’m going to have them Scooby Snacks!
Pinhead pops round for an evening of fun, what are you pains and pleasures?


Play Whack’a’Mole. I mean how many times could he take a beating in the head?
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The Wishmaster gives you three wishes

1.  You can wish to write in any franchise
2. You can wipe on franchise from the minds of everyone
3. You can date your horror crush

What do you chose?
Crush would have to be Courtney Cox from Scream. Not many female horror villains actually. There’s definitely room in the market for a female Freddy or Jason. I’m all for equality.

Rory Dwane is a writer and artist who lives in the midlands of Ireland. He writes fiction in the genre's Horror, Thriller, Fantasy, Adventure and Children's.


To keep up to date on his future work, please follow him at https://rorydwaneart.wordpress.com/

Could you tell the readers a little bit about yourself?


I’m a lifelong horror fan. I saw An American Werewolf in London way too young. I saw Jaws when I was five or six. Those experiences imprint on you at that age. I was lucky enough to grow up when some of the greatest horror films of all time were being made – A Nightmare on Elm Street, Fright Night, Gremlins, Hellraiser.


I love movies, comics, books. I have three children and a woman who claims to be my wife (we had some sort of strange ceremony with a guy dressed like a wizard, and they put a ring on one of my many fingers, and now I can’t get it off).


I’ve been writing for a while. I messed around in film and made comics for a while before delving into prose which is where I’ve been spinning yarns since around 2008.

Which one of your characters would you least like to meet in real life?


The Magdalene from my novella The House of Tears which rounds out my collection Diabolique. She’s essentially a succubus. She is a being who brings destruction to any man who encounters her. She is the head denizen of a demonic sex club known as The House of Tears. For all her allure, for the sexuality and sensuality she exudes like pheromones, she’s a predator.

Other than the horror genre, what else has been a major influence on your writing?


I’ve had a long fascination with the Beat Generation, Burroughs, Kerouac, Ginsberg. Burroughs for his off-kilter subversive works. He really pushed the envelope of what could be considered literature with Naked Lunch and the Nova Trilogy. On the Road may have been Kerouac’s seminal work, but I always chimed with Big Sur better, along with The Dharma Bums. Big Sur is a novel obsessed with Kerouac’s self-destruction and reflections on his mortality. I found the juxtaposition of the explosion of life he found on Big Sur that dazzled him, enthralled him, the clarity of the water in the stream, the cleanliness of the air, the giddiness he found in the company of his friends, while at the same time he was plumbing the depths of alcoholism, to be profoundly sad.

Bret Easton Ellis’ monstrous American Psycho is a book I’ve returned to many times.

The Invisibles by Grant Morrison absolutely blew my mind when I first read it and I delved into his work with a fervour I’ve never really found for any other creator bar Clive Barker. The Filth, Animal Man, Doom Patrol, We3, Flex Mentallo, Zenith…I could go on all day about his ability to metatextualise what some would consider a children’s medium. I know Alan Moore is considered higher in the pantheon of creators, and for good reason, but I’ve always loved Morrison’s work. I find he opens doors in my imagination that other writers have never even knocked upon.
I also love poetry. Seamus Heaney is a particular favourite of mine.


The term horror, especially when applied to fiction always carries such heavy connotations.  What’s your feeling on the term “horror” and what do you think we can do to break past these assumptions?


Most people shy away from the term “horror”. When you mention horror to people they squirm, a peculiar look comes over their face, their features screw up. “Oh, I don’t go for that sort of thing,” they say. But any genre can have horror in its DNA. Tell them that The Silence of the Lambs is a horror movie, and they won’t believe you, but we all know it is. Se7en is a horror film. I see David Fincher’s masterpiece Zodiac as a very real horror film. Jaws is as scary a film as you’ll find.

Horror, to me, is anything that forces us to confront our mortal nature, or our beastly, animalistic side. The side we pretend we don’t have because we live in polite society. Those impulses that simmer under the lid of civilization. We look upon those urges as repellent, as despicable, but they’re part of human nature. They’re part of us. The Monster. The Demon. All our monsters are metaphors for other, darker things. I think that’s what the best horror does. It forces us to reflect on those parts of ourselves we’d rather bury, padlocked, and chained in a small metal box and buried ten feet under the ground.


A lot of good horror movements have arisen as a direct result of the socio/political climate, considering the current state of the world where do you see horror going in the next few years?


We’re essentially watching a renewal of the cold war, but we’ve doubled our number of enemies. Facing the “west” now is both Russia and China. The last time we lived through times like these we had a run of Body Snatcher type films. I do wonder if we’re due a remake of that classic film (even though there’s at least three versions of it).

Given the renewed interest, and serious reporting of, UFOs/UAP phenomenon, I would like to see a wave of extra-terrestrial themed horror. The Thing is probably my favourite horror film. It’s perfect and plays on the paranoia that the cold war bred in people – who can you trust if your enemy looks like your friend?

Given the dark, violent and at times grotesque nature of the horror genre why do you think so many people enjoy reading it?


Release. Fear is an emotion that really has no utility in the human experience any longer. It’s possibly the oldest emotion, it’s definitely the most important one we ever developed. It was needed when we lived our lives under threat of predation. That threat is mostly gone now. We’ve slain the beasts. We’ve risen above that threat. Horror gives us a dose of that ancient emotion, and the endorphin rush that we receive when we’ve survived the threat. I think that’s what people get from Horror.


What, if anything, is currently missing from the horror genre?


In the modern era, comedy. Horror films used to have laughs in them. An American werewolf in London is as funny as it is scary. Edgar Wright rekindled the horror-comedy with Shaun of the Dead and The Worlds End. I’d like to see more of it.

What new and upcoming authors do you think we should take notice of?


Sam L Edwards. Paula D. Ashe. Russell Smeaton. Alan Baxter is pretty established in Australia, but I always recommend his work.

Are there any reviews of your work, positive or negative that have stayed with you?


Everyone who has read my short story The Outsider seems to really like it. Lynda E Rucker suggested I write a gritty crime novel after she read it. I may take her up on that someday.


What aspects of writing to do you find the most difficult?

Somedays it’s just the grind of sitting down and putting words on the page. Sometimes it’s finding the actual time to do it. I struggled for a few years with finding ideas for stories, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem these days. I think the issue was that I was looking for stories to come to me fully formed, or I was trying to force the ideas to come to me. Nowadays I just start with an image, or a character name, or maybe even an ending that I can see in my head and then I sketch out a semi-rigid plot and get to work. I’m not a heavy plotter. I tend to give myself a light framework of what the story might look like and then see where it goes.

Is there one subject you would never write about as an author?

I don’t think there’s anything I would shy away from if I felt I could do the subject justice and write it in a sensitive manner. It depends. As a father I abhor stories with violence towards young children, so that’s not something that features heavily, or at all, in my work to date.


Writing, is not a static process, how have you developed as a writer over the years?

My ability to visualize, to work through an idea, has developed over the years. My style has certainly developed since I began writing, the ways to express an idea, to get it down on the page, to elaborate. I think my use of language has sharpened.


What is the best piece of advice you ever received with regards to your writing?

Just do the damn work. My kids are superb athletes and the mantra I hear often is “hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.” I think that applies to just about every profession.


Which of your characters is your favourite?

I’m going to say two characters because they’re essentially a double act. My occult detective character Anna Barlow and her ghost sidekick Turk. Writing them is a breeze. They bounce off each other. They’re funny. I don’t have to work on their dialogue at all, they just speak it. I never find myself bouncing words around looking for the right way to say things. They’re both facets of myself, as are all the characters in my work, but these two moreso. I’d go so far as to say I love the pair of them. When I’m writing them it’s like being with old friends. It’s a strange sensation. I’ve written three stories in their world, a short novella, and have plotted out (very loosely) a novel. One of their stories Angelus was published in Occult Detective Quarterly and has been reprinted in Diabolique.


Which of your books best represents you?

Diabolique. It maps the interior of my creative life and obsessions. It’s an eclectic mix of horror stories that explore different threads of horror that I find interesting – body horror, sex, obsessions. There is comedy in there, some light threaded through the darkness.

Do you have a favorite line or passage from your work, and would you like to share it with us?


“The woman’s voice crackled with electricity, charging the very fabric of the room like static air before the breaking of a thunderstorm.

“Are you prepared, Mr de Leeuwin?”

She was shrouded in shadow, standing in the corner of the room and as such was mostly invisible on the camera’s lens. Liam only saw part of her face illuminated in the glowing embers of the cigarette she would occasionally raise to her lips. The sleek curl of her mouth, a sharp cheekbone, the glint of fire in her eye.” – The House of Tears.

Can you tell us about your last book, and can you tell us about what you are working on next?


Diabolique dropped in October. This year I’ve been writing a novel, tentatively titled Delirium. The first draft is finished, so I’ll be taking a break to write a novella that I’ve been asked to write by my publisher (Hybrid Sequence Media) before getting into the second draft. It probably has another 6-9 months of work before it’ll be finished. Having three kids and a full-time job takes up a lot of my time, so I only get an hour or so to write at night. I have another novel plotted out, but that’s probably a year or so away before I get down to the actual writing of it.

If you could erase one horror cliché what would be your choice?

Jump scares. Jesus Christ, just stop doing them. You’re cheating your audience. A jump scare should be earned. Just making things quiet then going LOUD isn’t doing anyone any favours. You want to know how to do a real jump scare? Watch The Exorcist 3.

What was the last great book you read, and what was the last book that disappointed you?


The last great book I read was Richard Matheson’s classic I Am Legend. It’s such a great book. If anyone hasn’t read it, I’d say go look it out right now.

The last book to disappoint me? There’s plenty of them. I don’t finish a book if I’m not enjoying it. Most recently I was on a sci-fi kick and started Dune Messiah. The original Dune is an absolutely stellar book, but Dune Messiah I put it down after a hundred or so pages.

What's the one question you wish you would get asked but never do?  And what would be the answer?

If you had to fight a hundred duck-sized horses, or one horse-sized duck, which would it be and why?

I would fight those tiny little horses. Doesn’t matter if there’s a hundred of them, I think I could punt those equine bastards to the moon. A horse-sized duck on the other hand could be a formidable beast and I’m not sure I’d win that. Have you seen the size of horses?!

BIO
John Paul Fitch lives in Perth, Western Australia with his wife and children. He is the author of short story collection Diabolique.

WEBSITE LINKS
https://www.amazon.com/John-Paul-Fitch/e/B07KNGG71R%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share
​

                                      https://johnpfitch.wordpress.com/
​

Could you tell the readers a little bit about yourself?

Hello! I’m Frazer, and I write scary books and make scary films sometimes. I grow my own pumpkins and am 90% coffee. Crisps are my terrible and ultimate downfall.

Which one of your characters would you least like to meet in real life?

The Skin Mechanic from my novels The Lamplighters and The Skintaker. His interest in people only goes skin deep, so to speak! (shudder)

Other than the horror genre, what else has been a major influence on your writing?

J. G. Ballard who could take the most banal, everyday thing and make it so vividly disturbing.


The term horror, especially when applied to fiction always carries such heavy connotations.  What’s your feeling on the term “horror” and what do you think we can do to break past these assumptions?

I agree with the assertion that ‘horror’ is an emotion, but to expand on that I think it is a series of emotions. We can feel concern for our protagonist, and complicity with our antagonist, the unbearable tension of entrapment, and its release, all within a single scene. I’d argue that horror stories can make us feel all the more alive for having experienced them.

A lot of good horror movements have arisen as a direct result of the socio/political climate, considering the current state of the world where do you see horror going in the next few years?

I think horror is going to continue exploring poverty and environmental abuses in the context of the climate crisis and the seemingly never-ending governmental support for the 1%.

Given the dark, violent and at times grotesque nature of the horror genre why do you think so many people enjoy reading it?

A lot of horror lovers have told me that they feel somehow comforted by the terrors. To me, a ghastly old Hammer Horror is like a warm, cosy blanket. Perhaps we feel that we can control our fears, or at least explore them in a controlled environment, for a little while before we return to the uncertainties of real life.

What, if anything, is currently missing from the horror genre?

I’m going to chance my arm and say that the film I’m planning to do next is currently conspicuous by its absence. But I’m working on it!

What new and upcoming authors do you think we should take notice of?

Check out the writings of Michelle Renee Lane, Christa Carmen, Clare Castleberry if you haven’t already!

Are there any reviews of your work, positive or negative that have stayed with you?

Tobe Hooper once told me that my film Red Lines gave him ‘the total creeps’. That was a moment, let me tell you.

What aspects of writing to do you find the most difficult?

There’s this period of soul-destroying self-doubt that usually happens around the middle of a project. Luckily, the characters can be feeling it too (in the story) so you can pull together with your creations and get through it. But it ain’t easy.

Is there one subject you would never write about as an author?

‘There are no limits.’


Writing, is not a static process, how have you developed as a writer over the years?

Impatience to get on to the next thing, and the next, is still a driver, but I’ve thankfully learned to take a break now and then. Getting old, I guess.

What is the best piece of advice you ever received with regards to your writing?

When people at parties tell me I should ‘write something that everyone wants to read’ I am reminded why I don’t go to parties very often, if ever.

Which of your characters is your favourite?

I had a soft spot for Jupiter ‘Brian’ Crash in my folk horror novel The Jack in the Green, but I have no regrets about the manner of his departure.

Which of your books best represents you?

I think The Jack in the Green does. I’m very angry about HS2 tearing gaping holes in the countryside and gobbling up our ancient forests so some rich arsehole can get richer, and another can shave a massive 20mins off his journey, it they every finish the ridiculous thing. And I’m a sucker for a chainsaw or three.

Do you have a favorite line or passage from your work, and would you like to share it with us?

I’d rather my readers (all three of them, ha!) find something they like in my work. Answers on a postcard please?

Can you tell us about your last book, and can you tell us about what you are working on next?

My seventh novel Damnation: The Gothic Game was published on Halloween 2022 and is a tie-in with Blackletter Games’ revamp (pun intended!) of my all time favourite horror board game. In the shadow of the Carpathian Mountains a group of shady Victorian strangers stay the night at Castle Dracula and are lured into a deadly game of battle royale. I’ve always wanted to write a Dracula story, and an ardent a fan of the game so writing it was a nightmare come true for me. Up next is something I can’t talk about yet. Not being fancy, but I signed a NDA! Watch this space: www.frazerlee.com

If you could erase one horror cliché what would be your choice?

I kind of love the clichés, but sometimes I long for the time when ‘no signal’ wasn’t an issue. It’s partly why I set my novel The Skintaker in the 1920s.

What was the last great book you read, and what was the last book that disappointed you?

The Deathless Girls, a YA novel by Kiran Millwood Hargrave, rocks. Honestly can’t remember the last time a book disappointed me, apart from perhaps my own sales figures, ha ha!

What's the one question you wish you would get asked but never do?  And what would be the answer?

Dear Frazer, would you write/direct* delete as appropriate [insert dream project here] for us? My answer would be a hot YES of course.

FRAZER LEE is a novelist, screenwriter and filmmaker.
Film credits include acclaimed horror/thriller feature Panic Button, and multi-award winning shorts: On Edge, Red Lines, Simone, The Stay (Edgar Allan Poe Gothic Filmmaker Award Winner), and True Horror with Anthony Head (TV promo campaign director for Discovery Channel series).
​
Novels include: The Lamplighters (Bram Stoker Award®, finalist for ‘Superior Achievement in a First Novel’), Panic Button: Official Movie Novelisation (Amazon No. 1 Horror/thriller novel),The Jack in the Green, The Skintaker, Hearthstone Cottage (Amazon No. 1 Celtic horror novel), Greyfriars Reformatory, and The Daniel Gates Adventures novella series.

Frazer acts as a screenwriting and story consultant for Movie Mogul, The Asylum, Mediente International, eMotion, and Vanquish Alliance Entertainment, and was voted a Top 12 UK director in MySpace.com’s Movie Mash-up contest by representatives from 20th Century Fox, Vertigo Films and Film Four.

He is also the Head of Postgraduate Creative Writing at Brunel University London, and is an active member of Horror Writers Association, International Thriller Writers, and the International Association of Media Tie-in Writers (IAMTW), as well as a guest speaker for London Screenwriters Festival and Guerilla Filmmakers Masterclass. Frazer lives with his family across the cemetery from the actual Hammer House of Horror in Buckinghamshire.

WEB LINKS:Official website: www.frazerlee.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/frazer_lee
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/AuthorFrazerLee
Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4451295.Frazer_Lee
Amazon Author Page: http://www.amazon.com/Frazer-Lee/e/B002L2PVAE
IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0497281/
Vimeo reel: http://vimeo.com/user9527259

Hello Russell, I hope all is well with you; as well as being an author, you are also a professional narrator; which came first? And what prompted you to move into your second artistic endeavour?


I actually started writing first! I’ve been writing since I was in elementary school and wrote stories in a notebook by hand (and even provided my own poorly done illustrations). I tried self-publishing in the early 2010’s but didn’t realize what success in that area actually entailed, so I dropped off the writing radar for a while. I continued to write short stories and submit to magazines with two of my stories being accepted to a small publication called Sanitarium Magazine. I eventually found my true calling as a voice over talent and was fortunate enough to go full-time in that area, but I got my start narrating audio books. This led me to network with authors and such and I found a publisher that was willing to take a look at my self-published books for potential publishing through their company. Now, I’m here. Publishing my first trilogy (after one stand-alone novel) while living my dream as a VO talent!


What was the first book you narrated, and how do you feel about your performance compared to how you developed as a narrator?

Just like any artistic endeavor, you have to learn, grow, and improve. I read somewhere that your first youtube video, your first song, your first drawing, your first story isn’t going to be perfect. Just start doing what your passionate about and get better.

The difference between my first book I narrated and my most recent is vastly different, but that means I improved. My first book was a 12-hour-long sci-fi romance called The Braxin King. It was the first bit of voice over I ever did and you can definitely tell. If you look back on some of your earlier work and feel a little cringy—whether its voice over, writing, sculpting, painting, or whatever it may be—that’s a good thing. It means you’ve improved. In voice over, this includes not only your skill but also your equipment and editing skills. All three have improved in my case and the feedback on my narration is quite positive…which always feels good.


What's the biggest mistake that people make when narrating a book?

Everyone’s voice over journey is a little different. It’s what makes this industry so great but also so frustrating. Some people come out of high school or college with acting classes and such and others find it later in life, like me. Some get tons of coaching before even starting on anything while others jump feet first and start narrating. I’m somewhere in the middle on that one. Some would say never try to narrate anything before getting coaching while others have just bought their first mic and started reading. With that in mind, I think the biggest mistake one can make when narrating a book is simply this: not doing it at all.

If you’re an author and want to narrate your own book, you should definitely look into what it takes. It’s not as simple as sitting at your computer, turning on your computer mic, and reading. There’s the technical aspects to your audio file that make it viable for publication platforms, the time required not just to read but also edit the narration. So, if you want to narrate your own you should look into the details, but if you still want to do it on your own, you should still try! Not doing it at all is just one more regret you don’t want. If you have to hire a narrator, then so be it. We’re here. But don’t be afraid if you want to give it a go yourself—just make the proper preparations.


Who would be your dream author to narrate for?

So many…Stephen King, Laird Barron, J.R.R. Tolkien, George R.R. Martin, Andrzej Sapkowski, R.A. Salvatore, Ramsey Campbell, Thomas Ligotti, Patrick Rothfuss…


I am fascinated by the dynamics of the process of narrating a book; how do you prepare for it?

I try to keep my process simple for both myself and the author. I make sure I get a list of pronunciations from authors since I’ve dealt mostly in fantasy and sci-fi. I also ask for brief character and species descriptions so I can decide on vocal differences. Most of the time you don’t have a “Saturday Morning Cartoon” vibe to characters so I give subtle changes to tell characters apart. I subscribe to the school of thought that I’m telling a story directly into listeners ears, not performing a stage play. The feedback on my voice is that listeners love the gravelly, gentlemanly sound that I have and so I go for books of that nature to play on my strengths.


And how do you tackle the process of narrating different characters?

I always ask for brief descriptions and pronunciations. Just a few key traits is enough. I’m one person voicing sometimes dozens of characters, so subtle differences is often the key.

Do you have any tips for those looking into becoming a narrator?

Do some research! There’s more to it than just reading the book out loud. Everyone finds their own sound, of course, but there’s still a flow to audio book narration. Also, unless you’re going into a studio for a big publishing company you’ll be doing the editing yourself. Nowadays, most recording is done remotely so going into a studio is unlikely so you’ll need a space in your home to work. You’d be surprised how many VO talents work out of their closets or at least got their start working in their closets. The acoustics are surprisingly great!

Also, make sure you’re ready for the commitment. Recording for a promo, commercial, or the like is fairly quick work. Audio books are a marathon, not a sprint. You’re looking at a 5-10 hour audio book and that’s just the finished product. For every finished hour, there’s at least 2-3 hours of work that goes into it; including the narrating and editing. And that’s for experienced narrators. I’m at about a 1.5-2:1 hour ratio, but beginners are looking at everywhere from 3 to 5 hours per finished hour. You can also find multiple platforms to get started. ACX is a popular one. You can record a few samples of you narrating books in your wheelhouse and upload them as samples and start auditioning! The other course of action, if you can afford it, is to get some coaching and cut a demo. Like I said, the journey is different for everyone! I would recommend research, first, personally.


How about we put the cat amongst the pigeons for a minute? There is still this neverending discourse on social media about audiobooks not being "real reading" what are your thoughts on this?

One of the things I did before becoming a VO was teaching high school English. I also have my MAT (Master’s of Arts in Teaching), so reading is something I’m pretty passionate about.

In today’s world, any time you can get someone involved in a story, a narrative, characters, and the like, the vector to which they get involved shouldn’t be an obstacle. Yes, reading a book in a physical format is important, but if listening to audio books is what it takes to get someone into a story then let them enjoy it! It may lead them to reading physical copies. As an author, I just want people to enjoy my stories, settings, and characters so if they choose an audio book to do so, then I’m perfectly fine with that.


Let's talk about your writing now; how would you describe your writing style concerning genre placement?

I write mostly in fantasy and horror, particularly dark fantasy (so…fantasy horror). I think my writing style so far has leant itself to a “mystery” bent because of my preferred genre and authors, which is cosmic horror and authors like H.P. Lovecraft and Laird Barron and fantasy from Tolkien and Sapkowski. My stories tend to have a mysterious component that results in the characters not being too happy with what they find. I like to leave things out there for the reader to wonder about and even be afraid of what the end game is going to be: kinda good or very, very bad? It could very much go either way. I also follow the trend of Lovecraft’s idea: “don’t explain anything.” Horror tends to sometimes “overshow,” and that’s perfectly fine given what the creator is trying to do, but I prefer the kind of horror that drives readers nuts (including myself) with the “What really happened?” It’s what you don’t see or hear that makes things scarier. If you leave a little blank in parts of your horror, the readers’ have to fill that in with their own imagination. Sometimes, they’ll come up with something worse than you could. It’s that gut-punch of “they found/experienced something awful, but what there’s something worse…what was it???”


Audiobooks are widely popular, but I have to put my hand on my heart, and as much as I would love to get into them, I can focus enough, and they seem to wash over me; what am I doing wrong?

I have a hard time with audio books, too! But because I’m a narrator I nitpick when I hear narration so it’s my own doing. I honestly can’t offer any helpful advice here, unfortunately—except maybe save your audio book listening for times when it’s the only option you have. Like traveling in your car, waiting on an appointment, etc. I know that’s what a lot of people do.


Why do you think audiobooks are continually gaining in popularity?

For some of the reasons listed above, for one. Lots of commuting back and forth to work (which can literally take hours), waiting around on appointments, kid’s practices, and such. Also, it’s cheaper and more viable. Back in the day you had to listen to an audio book on multiple CD’s or a literal box of cassettes. Now you can download an audio book to your phone and have the whole thing right there; actually, you can have a whole library on your phone and listen at your leisure.

Do your experiences as a narrator give you an insight into how to get the rhythm of a novel and the character's identities correct?

Yes! It make me cautious about several things in my writing because I often read my work as I’m writing to see how it sound out loud.


Your latest novel, Ashes of Aldyr, is described as a Lovecraft meets Tolkien, that's a heady mix of genre influences; what drew you to placing the novel within this type of genre fiction?

My initial thoughts for The Obscured Throne Trilogy, of which Ashes of Aldyr is the first book, was, “What if a Tolkien-esque world was invaded by Lovecraftian abominations?”

I also wanted to write a post-apocalyptic-style dark fantasy. This made for a good mix in my mind, as the apocalyptic event would be what brought these unspeakable things into the fantasy setting. Although the name changed, I at first called the event “The Fall” because I was literally looking at having a High Fantasy setting brought down to Low Fantasy in the post-apocalypse as the characters dealt with the world they now lived in—a literal “fall” from High Fantasy to Low Fantasy. So, that’s basically what you have in the books: different stories of different characters living a broken world where things that can’t be described are lurking in the forests, oceans, and the remains of the broken and uninhabitable cities of the old world.

Why do you think that Tolkien and Lovecraft still have an enduring appeal? Especially with regards to Lovecraft and his views on race etc.?

That consistently comes up in conversation with my friends and me in conversation around Lovecraft. Lovecraft is probably responsible for many of the horror elements we’re most familiar with since he influenced writers like Stephen King, Wes Craven, and many others. The characters, creatures, and settings of Lovecraft are all incredibly creative and intriguing. His troubled mind definitely leaves a dark stain on his legacy. He was agoraphobic, insulated, sickly, and had many other explanations for his views on race, but certainly nothing to excuse it. S.T. Joshi can probably explain all of it a lot better than I can, but there are definitely those who can’t read Lovecraft’s work because of those views. He appeared to be changing them towards the end of his life, but he died fairly young before he could try to redeem himself from his obviously racist viewpoints. Tolkien, of course, practically created modern fantasy as we know it. And then you have the Lord of the Rings trilogy of movies from the early 2000’s, which still hold up today in terms of storytelling and effects. It brought fantasy into the fold as a mainstream genre that all people could enjoy. If not for LotR, we wouldn’t have Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, or anything else like that to enjoy on our screens! Not to mention, it spiked interest in fantasy altogether.


People still get caught up with genre labels, and you describe Ashes of Alder as a "dark fantasy" from your perspective. What is the difference between dark fantasy, horror and fantasy?

There are definitely some thematic differences between horror and fantasy, and I feel dark fantasy is more a subgenre of fantasy.

Some say dark fantasy is also low fantasy, like Conan the Barbarian and Game of Thrones, where magic and dragons and mythical creatures aren’t at the forefront of the story. Dark fantasy also has darker themes, like the hero not coming out with a full win if they come out with at all or even alive. The world’s are grittier, maybe more “realistic” in terms of outcomes and repercussions for the characters. The world’s of dark fantasy are harsh, cruel, and the lives of many are bitter and hard-fought. Yes, the Lord of the Rings trilogy has moments like this, but compare it to something like Berserk or In the Name of the Wind and you can see the differences in the work. In a dark fantasy narrative like the video game Dragon Age, for example, elves aren’t an ancient and noble race; they’re second-class citizens if they live among humans and, in the forests, they struggle to maintain their culture and existence. Outright horror elements also exist much more heavily in dark fantasy.


People read different books for different reasons; what do you look to connect with, say, a horror novel instead of a fantasy novel?

My favorite aspect of horror is the unknown and the “gribbly” for lack of a better word. My favorite subgenre is cosmic horror, where humanity is inconsequential in the universe and there are things out there beyond our understanding, that escape the very bounds of our minds, and the characters that get even a glimpse of that knowledge are driven insane or drop dead on the spot from their consciousness caving in on itself.

I love fantasy because of the escapism, the creativity, the majesty of its settings and my love for romantic medieval notions. Combining them into dark fantasy is like putting my chocolate and peanut butter together, if you will.

I enjoy surrounding creepy villages, cults, towns with a dark secret, entities that are older than time and investigators/academics searching for some bit of knowledge and getting in too deep before they realize it. Mostly because this is so disconnected from real life that I can really just enjoy the story without any of life’s real dramas.

There is a very similar world building in many fantasy novels; in terms of "familiar" fantasy worlds, does your book lie, and how did you ensure that your world felt fresh and not just a rehash of another world?

In this trilogy, I wanted to take those tropes and turn them on their head. Who cares about goblins when there’s some giant thing just beneath the surface of the ocean outside the city that’s causing anyone who looks at it to walk languidly to their death off the cliff facing it?

An underground dwarven kingdom? What happens when the world reshapes and mountains collapse from an apocalyptic event? Why has no one heard from dwarves since then? What terrors are they dealing with that have been awakened by reality itself turning against everyone?

A lot of fantasy world-building often involves bustling cities, politics, and the interactions characters have with such places. Things change when the cities become the main targets of the otherworldly god-like beings and all become uninhabitable if not downright hostile to be in or around. Even more mysterious…what’s with this city that doesn’t seem to be affected at all?

The nature of magic itself becomes altered as the history of the world of Alda (the setting of The Obscured Throne trilogy) becomes revealed over the course of the books.

Despite the massive success of books, film, television, etc., fantasy and horror are frowned upon by those who don't consume them; how do we, as fans and creators, move past this?

I think we just continue to do our work and write what we love! Horror and fantasy have certainly come a long way in my lifetime, where it’s more mainstream than ever and creative people are making new stories rather than relying on rehashing old favorites.


Who would you say is the perfect audience for Ashes of Alder?

Fans of dark fantasy, and horror and fantasy overall, will find something to like in Ashes of Aldyr and the upcoming second book, Ghosts of Alda. Cosmic horror fans will especially enjoy the nature of the horror in the book. Short story fans will like the structure of the novels as the narrative is told through multiple viewpoints with a few characters and story arcs comprising the core fate of the world.

My favorite way of describing it is that it’s like a mosaic, with each story being a contained piece of that mosaic and building a bigger picture.

Once the third book, Shadows of the Throne, is released, I’m hoping that the full mosaic will leave readers shuddering and thinking about the holistic terror of the trilogy long after they’ve finished the last page.

Thank you for this brilliant interview Russell; for those interested in finding out more about your work, where should they head to?

Thank you! Anyone who wants to know more can visit my website, www.russellarchey.com or my publisher’s site, www.5princebooks.com.
They can also sign up for my newsletter on my site.
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Good reading everyone!

​Wrathful gods and crumbling societies of men and elves are to be found between the pages of audiobook narrator Russell Archey’s latest dark fantasy Ashes of Aldyr. A story-teller and world-builder at heart, he masterfully sets the scene and sets into motion a fantastical high-stakes adventure that will span three books, making the complete Obscured Throne Trilogy. With a full cast of skilled and mysterious characters, otherworldly monsters, and earth-shattering catastrophes, it’s perfect for lovers of H.P. Lovecraft and J.R.R. Tolkien. 

Told across nine separate stories, Ashes of Aldyr describes a fantastical world of men and elves torn apart by cataclysmic, otherworldly events. With bloodshed abundant and nightmare-worthy creatures around every corner, happy endings are not to be found for the unfortunate creatures of Alda as the entities of the Obscured Throne wreak havoc. 
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On a hillside in the outskirts of the village of Alda, a hermitted member of the Black Gnarl cult culminates his life’s work by breaking the seal between this world and one of utter darkness and destruction. A scribe unlocks the secrets of the cult’s divine power, only to become part of the growing infection taking over. An elven noble roams through the remains of her shattered life, unknowingly playing a key part in a sorcerer’s sinister plan. Ashes of Aldyr is told from the perspectives of villains and heroes alike, from nobles to terrifying beasts with each story making up threads that form a larger tapestry of horror and insanity.

You wake up and find yourself in a horror franchise, what franchise would you prefer to wake up in and why?


Hellraiser. I would definitely make a good Cenobite.


You find yourself as the “Final One”  which monster / villain would you most like to go up against ands why do you think you would survive?

John Carpenter’s The Thing. MacReady and I are wired the same: focused, cool-headed monster killers willing to die to protect others. We survive because we refuse to allow emotions to overrule intellect. Also, we both flourish in extremely cold environments.


And which creature would you least like to go up against?


The Dark Seekers in I Am Legend. Definitely one of the top horror movies ever made, in my opinion. The solitude; the eerie quiet; Will Smith’s spot-on acting. Just so well done. And those strong, fast-moving people-eaters are just awful! The scene where Will follows his dog into the dark building; sneaks up on a nest of them in stasis, breathing in a circle; and he tries to walk backwards without them discovering: this is the most suspenseful scene in horror moviedom. Those creatures are the worst, but I would not like to get slowly digested inside Shai-Hulud’s giant Dune sandworm’s gut, either.


You find yourself in Scooby Doo, which character are you, and who would most like to have as the other members of Mystery Inc?

I’m Fred, except not dressed like a sixties douchey mod trust fund mutant. I’d definitely keep Shaggy and Scooby for comic relief. Daphne and Velma: what boy growing up in the Seventies didn’t have a crush on those two? Keeping all four in my Mystery Machine for sure.





Pinhead pops round for an evening of fun, what are you pains and pleasures?
Tony Masi, the producer of Hellraiser: Evolutions is a friend of 20 years! Me and Jamie Clayton, the new Pinhead, equipped with 28/0 stainless steel hooks and chains would definitely test some limits. Such fun!


The Wishmaster gives you three wishes

1.  You can wish to write in any franchise
2. You can wipe on franchise from the minds of everyone
3. You can date your horror crush

What do you chose?

1) I LOVE Clive Barker’s writing. To pair up with him would be a dream job.

2) Pet Sematary. Stephen King’s creepy, scary, perfectly written hard-hitting horror story turned into a banal movie franchise. It needs a complete do-over with King closely advising the new producer. The new focus must be on Louis Creed’s grief. Also please lose the music soundtrack. Quiet is spooky! At some point many years ago, movie-makers started adding loud musical scores to horror movies. Consider two major successes: Halloween and Shawshank Redemption. What do you hear? Ominous single piano notes in Halloween; sparing, tasteful piano throughout Shawshank with a string section added at climactic moments. In most every other horror movie, the music pulls the viewer out of creepy tingles; also it dates the movie. Pet Sematary movies must be erased from every mind. Read the book!
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3) Daphne Blake from Scooby Doo. I simply cannot resist a redhead in a purple top, dress, pink pantyhose, matchy-matchy shoes, a plastic purple headband and a green scarf. I am rendered powerless inside the alluring, captivating, enchanting gravitational force of Daphne’s event horizon.

Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead burst onto the scene with 2012’s “Resolution”, a smart and tense sci-fi thriller which marked them as masters of the high concept and a distinctive visual style. 2017 saw the release of “The Endless” – a sequel of sorts to the Resolution, but expanding dramatically upon that premise – and from then on, the hands-on co-directors have gone from strength to strength. 2020 saw them direct an episode of Jordan Peele’s reboot “The Twilight Zone”, and they’ve recently directed two episodes of Marvel’s 2022 Moon Knight. And now 2022 sees the release of their new film, “Something In The Dirt” – an ambiguous tale of doomed friendships, conspiracies and the preternatural invading the mundane.


The film saw its UK debut at the Arrow Frightfest festival on Saturday the 27th of August. Journalistic integrity (aka anxious preparation and planning) meant that I missed it on the big screen, but thanks to a screener I was able to watch it – and even having watched it on a small mobile screen, I can vouch for the films power and effectiveness. A full review will be forthcoming, but circumstances meant that I was lucky enough to bag an interview with the two directors and their producer. It was worth missing Dario Argento on stage for.

So, early evening at a small table outside the Soho Brasserie at the West End of London, Ginger Nuts of Horror got to sit with Aaron Moorhead, Justin Benson and producer Dave Lawson Jr. Keir – their PR guy – told us they were talkative and that we might struggle to get through all of our questions in the timeframe, and he wasn’t wrong – they were friendly, affable and enthused. Aaron was briefly away from the table, so we briefly touched on their experiences that morning at the Frightfest screening.


JUSTIN: It's funny in all of a lot of years of being lucky enough to play at film festivals and to have small theatrical releases, I don't think we've ever seen it that nice. Like with that nice of a screen. It's like - it's exactly as we mixed it. You never hear the sound exactly as you mixed it.


DAVE: We literally didn't even touch it, we just-


GNOH: You just went for it.


(Aaron arrives)


GNOH: Nice to meet you.


AARON: You too. Cool tattoos.


JUSTIN: Aaron, Dave and I just made an interesting observation. That was one of the first times that we've had our movie played back and the audio was the same time as the last time you heard it in the mix.


AARON: Yeah, my God.


GNOH: I'm going to have to be absolutely honest now; My wife got to see your Frightfest screening but I was off preparing for this. I got to see it on a screener at 7am this morning on my mobile phone.


JUSTIN: That’s what it's supposed to be!


GNOH: It worked perfectly well on the screen of my Samsung.


AARON: We designed the movie to be watched while jogging, wearing cheap headphones, on your way to work.


GNOH: A lot of the footage is pretty low-fi anyway, to be fair.


JUSTIN: It is funny, because we realise a majority of people are not going to see this at the theatre because that's not how any of us consume the majority of our media. So, it was always like 'yeah, that'll work on a - that'll work on a small screen'. Then we were like we never actually thought about the reverse really - I mean I wonder what this is gonna look like on a really big screen. Ah! It looks brilliant - Great. I'll just be over here smiling ear to ear.


AARON: You can see all of our pores.


JUSTIN: There was one shot of you - it was wow. Those macro shots were tight.


AARON: When I was sweating?


JUSTIN: It was a different one - just an extreme close-up.


GNOH: It's an amazingly sized screen.


JUSTIN: It transfers really well too; we've played on IMAX before, but it wasn't quite as bright as the film should have been, because of - whatever.


GNOH: Some hidden Imax control panel setting somewhere!


DAVE: I mean that's always tough. It's so big! But not bright.


JUSTIN: But the thing is the screen was so big, and the technical perfection was so amazing, I wanted to shout out "Put on Dune!".  I don't care about this right now! Put on Dune! We can watch this on a smaller screen.


GNOH: It’ll please Aaronofsky, because he was moaning that everybody would watch Dune on their mobile phone screens. It'll keep him perfectly happy. Anyway, I'll introduce myself properly - I'm David, and am officially here for Ginger Nuts of Horror today. I'll be brutally honest with you - I was here as a punter but found there was a slot available to interview you, so very little preparation whatsoever!


JUSTIN: I love it!


GNOH: Literally winging it.


AARON: Tell us about this tattoo.


GNOH: That's my Twilight Zone one.


JUSTIN: You know we did an episode of that, and it's an about an octopus. Is your other tattoo an Octopus?


GNOH: That's supposed to be Cthulhu.


AARON: Aah!


GNOH: It needs a redo. It peeled a bit.


AARON: All I'm hearing is that you got a tattoo of our Twilight Zone about a hyper-intelligent octopus.


DAVE: You know what? That's why he didn't prepare for the interview. I'm joking!


GNOH: I do have questions! The first one is the one all writers hate being asked, but what was the inspiration for “Something in the Dirt”?


AARON: Dave should answer it this time!


GNOH: And what was their pitch to you, Dave?


DAVE: Their pitch to me was that I never answer this question and they want to see how well I answer. A lot of this film has come from the last 12 years of us making movies together and writing pitches and scripts that never got made, and doing research into weird left of centre figures in history. We had a bunch of projects that were going into production including one with Justin and Aaron that got kind of curtailed because of COVID and then we were sitting around prepping for that one, preparing for whenever the restrictions lifted and Indy film became something you could do again. We quickly realised that that's not gonna be how this plays out. Like we were like, hey four months, September we'll be able to go back at it.  It quickly became clear that was not going to be what was going to happen. We've always been the team who are like - let's go make a movie, so that became our pivot as a team. I think the original idea was it was only to be the two of them - Justin and Aaron - who would be on set. And you even shot a day as a test.


AARON: Yeah, Day Zero.


DAVE: Which, technically would have worked, but maybe not for a whole feature. Then we realised, no, there needs to be at least three of us. The running joke on set was - one more set of hands. We really could have used one more set of hands.


AARON: Always one more set of hands.


JUSTIN: We should have had four.


DAVE: Yeah, we should have had four people on set. I don't know if we'll ever make that three person movie again, but four person maybe.


GNOH: The scales of Resolution and Endless were so vast, big sprawling vistas. Did the pandemic force you down the route of making a smaller more intimate film, or were you planning something bigger and that was curtailed?

​AARON: You know it's funny. The movie we had planned that didn't go, that we wanted to do when we exploded out the gates after the pandemic was over, which of course it's never going to be over, but you get the idea. That movie was not much bigger in scale than this one - two people in a house, in the desert. But it would have had massive visuals, and still would have felt like a larger film. This one, we felt like the scale could come from exploring the parts of the city that we love in ways that are normally pretty inaccessible, either through times of not being locked down or not having a crew of three. You know if you bring a whole crew of 25 to Griffith park and you don't pay for it, there's a problem. But we could just run around every little piece of it, and that's how we wanted to bring scale to it is that we would show these little pieces of Los Angeles and use visual effects to composite these sacred symbols that aren't really there, and following this coded rabbit hole all around the city that ends up ending up right where they began. That was our idea of scope. We felt that it would end up having more scope than our movie "Resolution", but also I'd say that scope was like, thing number 15 on our checklist of things we wanted to accomplish.  We just really wanted to make sure we nailed the character work first, the mythology second and as long as you hit the character work and mythology, and far down that road is something like scope.


GNOH: As an aside, I thought it was your best work yet. Absolutely loved it.


JUSTIN: Thank you. We're so proud of it.


GNOH: I was particularly impressed, because I inherently have a problem with unreliable narrators in fiction, because you get half way through the film and you think 'why am I watching this?'. You did a great job of unravelling that concept though - you did them excellently well, and that's in a movie with two of them.


AARON: I think the reliability or unreliability of the filmmaking being done and the story being told - who's telling it - I think that the things we did with it narratively in the movie, the things we tried. I think it's the first time that we've been frightened by the idea of doing something, frightened to the point where we thought let's make sure we have a backup, so we could edit the movie into not being that if we wanted. And then now - we literally saw the first cut, and we were like oh no, no, no - that is the movie. I don't think this is a spoiler - it's the re-enactment moment, yeah, that revelation. But I genuinely think that was probably our first time that we were a little afraid - let's make sure we have an emergency lever.


JUSTIN: The fact that something that wild ended up seamlessly working and becoming the crux of why the movie works probably has emboldened us that those who hire us in the future will find us desiring to do something that strange, because our biggest swing seemed to connect, and we'll be chasing that for a while.


GNOH: I was worried that I'd read too much into the re-enactment stuff, because it literally changes the whole narrative. Because everything you've watching might not have happened.


JUSTIN: Might not.


GNOH: We know you'd been to Frightfest in Glasgow - how many have you been to? Do you enjoy the Frightfest experience?


AARON: I'm going to tell you something that'll blow your mind - today is our first day ever being at Frightfest. We had a late night last night, we came in for the Frightfest parties. We had a late night, and we all gathered - huddled up this morning - got together, took the tube here, got here, and Paul McEvoy grabbed us, like "let me take you on a tour". And we were like, do we need a tour, we haven't had coffee yet, and we see this staircase lit up with blood and thousands of people and the screen is like bigger than a skyscraper. We've been going to film festivals for over a decade, and we've never been to one like this. Literally the biggest. I mean, everything is bigger. The audience is bigger, the screens are bigger, and the level of excellence of presentation is on some other level. 


DAVE: I mean, it was really fun. We were screening at 10:30 and 11:00, and we were like who is going to come at this time of the morning? And those screens were packed. 


AARON: There’s a curse that every film maker has. You finish your film to a technical standard - you colour grade it, and you're like "this is how it should look". Especially with the sound mix - you mix the music, and it's perfect in a very precise way and it takes weeks, and it's expensive. And I say "you" but I mean your sound mixer, because I don't want to take anything away from them. And then it never looks or sounds that good ever again. You get to the top, and everything is just a little calibration different. It's always like a little gut punch, like a twisting in your gut, like something is like a little wrong, and you can't explain it, you can't apologise for it. And it's so cool to come here to Frightfest, and it looked better than ever. It looked and sounded exactly like it should, and it's just so wonderful. But it's all downhill from here.


GNOH: Did it magnify any errors you missed?


JUSTIN: No! What's wild too, is that as we were making it, we were all hoping that we want it to look like 16mm - how do you do that - you're an Indy filmmaker and you're making a little movie, often making films costs are prohibitive. There are ways to do it - I mean, Joe Begas does it beautifully. For us, we just haven't quite figured that out so we're shooting RED and it does look great because Aaron is an amazing cinematographer - but the whole process is "we want to make it look sixteen millimetre" and those are all the conversations. Huge fans of Joe Begas, and we're aiming for that look and we don't know because we've never seen it with an audience, and then after the screening today three people walked up to Aaron and asked, "Did you shoot film, shoot 16mm?" and we were like "YES!"


AARON: It was like a moment from the office, where it pans to me and I'm Jim and just nodding my head. Just a little wry smile - Yes!


DAVE: And the it pans back to me, and I'm like - See, we don't have to shoot film.


JUSTIN: You're wrong, Dave. It's happening.


GNOH: We're wondering as well - are you here for the whole festival. Wondering whether there are any things you've caught, or want to see.


DAVE: I came in yesterday, and I leave tomorrow.


GNOH: No, then!


DAVE: These gents are living here now.


JUSTIN: We've been living here since April, but we don't get many days off. A three day weekend is pretty unheard of. Yesterday we came to the first Frightfest party, and there were so many friends we hadn't seen in years, and it feels like we've been on vacation. But it also for us feels like going to church - it's been really, really cool. The short answer is we live here, but it feels like we're on vacation.


GNOH: The Frightfest crowd is a really nice crowd. I mean, it's been going so long now that they've got it absolutely sewn up to a tee.


JUSTIN: It's really nice that you can identify the Frightfest crowd - not just from the red lanyard, everyone lets their freak flag fly. I mean the shirts - you see the shirts and you think 'that's my people'. Tattoos, coloured hair, cool t-shirts. What's your shirt?


GNOH: This is mine. We do a horror podcast - it's my own. we're repping our own merch.


DAVE: So are we!


GNOH: So, I noticed the references to Arcadian in "Something in the Dirt", so I think it's safe to assume it's a shared universe now?


JUSTIN: yeah, there's a lot of connections.

GNOH: Any more plans to set anything else inside that universe?


JUSTIN: I mean, yeah. We've got a bunch of stuff that we've been working on. Gosh. It's weird - Knock on wood - it feels like there's not a world where those things don't happen. It doesn't seem like it.


DAVE: I'd be shocked.


JUSTIN: But like I say, knock on wood. We have several things in that world. We spend all of our free time talking about it.


AARON: I mean, I think we're free to talk about it. Smiling Dave: The Reckoning?


DAVE: No, no, nooo - there's no Smiling Dave spin off.


AARON: Alright, alright, I guess we won't talk about that yet.


DAVE: You can't afford me.


GNOH: I'm going to start a petition.


DAVE: Go ahead. I'm not even going to give a number, because I know these guys will fight to get that petition up to whatever number it needs to be.


GNOH: How do you divvy up the work between yourselves?


JUSTIN: I mean, it's kind of like playing 52 card pick-up.


DAVE: Yes and no. I mean, on this one, one set was very specific and we had things to do. Specifically, with those two being in every scene, almost. So, they would have to change between scenes, so Aaron as the DP would give me the layout for the next scene then would go change into the next costume. I would rough everything in, and then we'd come back together and then we had a reset. We had a wall - it was our checklist wall - that was like 'here's everything we do before we hit record'


AARON: By the way, you know that wall. You know that famous meme with Charlie Day? That was our conspiracy wall, with all the scenes connected to each other. You know, here's the shot list, and here's continuity. If a strong wind would blow, there'd be a huge amount of papers. We shot most of everything in order, at least in the apartment. What needed to be there, what was the set-up of the room, but we would go to it everything. I mean, it was kind of specific but was literally the three of us going down a sheet of paper, going through everything step by step on what would be somebodies department.  I mean. does Aaron have his glasses, does Justin’s hair need to be blue - silly things.

JUSTIN: I have a really soft spot in my heart now for script supervisors who have to work with us  because we've done so many movies without someone managing - someone specifically managing continuity, and then we edit those movies, so we know like the lengths of what we get away with, and so I feel so bad for script supervisors who have to come up to us and go "what about this and this?" and we're like "doesn't matter, doesn't matter, doesn't matter." and they're like "we have a job to do" and we're like "we know, we know.”


DAVE: “You're too good at it. Problem is that you're an expert. We need an amateur."


GNOH: We're huge Twilight Zone fans, and we know you worked on an episode. Jordan Peele's revamp is pretty good, but we have to ask - does he just let you get on, or does he have a hand in things?


JUSTIN: That's a really good question. That's so fun. Actually, first off, that job was a gift from God-thing. It worked out scheduling wise that we had maybe more interaction with Jordan than many other film makers did, and he comes in there, and at least on set he wasn't giving us notes, or anything like that but you get to obviously do the obligatory him doing the  Twilight Zone thing, the role of Rod Serling. But we got to tell him, we got to express to him that on every one of our movies on our downtime now we show people his Gremlins 2 sketch from Key and Peele. We were like, do we tell him? Do we tell him? And we told him - and we're big fans. And also, by the way, we were kind of blown away that he had time to make small talk with us because post Get Out Peele is an insanely busy guy. He's got so many responsibilities, it was wonderful he had time to make small talk with us and hang out, have a dinner. And, Aaron, what was his response?


AARON: I don't know how you're going to write this - you're just going to have to describe it or something. We said to him "We're just going to have to tell, that Gremlins 2 sketch was our life blood for many of our productions". He just gave the biggest sigh and then -


JUSTIN: Hold on, wait for it.


(Aaron looks up, smirking with a cheeky smile).


AARON: "What do you wanna know?" He loves that stuff. He loves talking about it. He told us every detail about it, about shooting it, about how he pitched it to get it made, and we're probably not at liberty to tell his stories.


GNOH: Fantastic. I think "Nope" feels like it could fit into your universe, a little bit Endless. Big Eldritch things in the sky.


AARON: Big Eldritch things in the sky, and amateurs trying to document the supernatural.


JUSTIN: Dave, have you seen "Nope" yet?


DAVE: Not Yet.


JUSTIN: Hey, there you go. It's special. It's a very, very good movie. I wish we had more Summer movies like that. Unapologetically weird.


GNOH: It's just a great Monster movie.


JUSTIN: yeah, it's beautiful as well. Shall we talk about "Nope" for an hour?


GNOH: Could do, but you've got people waiting. This is a question that I ask a lot of people - how many marshmallows do you think you could fit in your mouth?


AARON: Oh my god. 45.


GNOH: We're not talking size.


DAVE: No, we have to, because that's critical to the question.


AARON: Camp-fire marshmallow size. Still 45.


DAVE: I could fit 50.


JUSTIN: 63.


GNOH: And I'll ask the question you're probably not allowed to answer. How's the Marvel work going? How's Loki coming along?


AARON: Oh my god, no hang on. Can I just tell you the entire plot of the new season of Loki?


GNOH: Have you started work on it yet?


(Aaron looked nervously about, checking the skyline).


AARON: Tom? Can you just turn off the sniper?


DAVE: Three predator dots will just turn up.


GNOH: It never hurts to ask. Thank you for your time, gentlemen. Much appreciated.


After a long day of interviews, the guys needed to get food. We chatted about that I’d also seen a film called “Everybody Dies By The End” which starred Vinny Curran (from “Resolution” in a starring role), and they were singing his praises as an actor. Aaron took a photograph of my tattoos to send to his girlfriend, insisting to her that I only got them because I was a really big fan of their Twilight Zone Episode..  And as the patterns in “Something In The Dirt” may attest to, perhaps they are. Perhaps even before they’d filmed the episode, it was destined that I would have the tattoos in place. There are patterns everywhere.

​“Something In The Dirt” had its UK Premiere at Arrow Frightfest and will be in UK Cinemas from the 4th of November.

Check out David's review of Something in The Dirt here 

About David Court
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About Tara Court
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